Swing arm oil
- Thread starter Dennis C
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I gave up on anything but engine honey like STP when I had oil fed spindles to feed. Single grade gear lube if ya can find it will ooze slower than multi grade meant to flow easy when cold. Otherwise just stay on top the feeding and sealing attempts between moppings. Some say they never had to top off the factory fill and a few others only once in couple decades to be sure so there's something to aim for in yours too.
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STP is a viscosity modifier not a lubricant. It is not recommended to use it at 100%. The highest mix ratio recommended by STP is 20% with the exception of use as an assembly lube where the recommended mix is 50%. It could be mixed with a lower viscosity oil or gear lube to increase viscosity but even that is questionable because it is hard to determine mixed viscosity.
140 wt gear lube is available from multiple sources.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lucas-Oil-10430 ... af&vxp=mtr
140 wt gear lube is available from multiple sources.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lucas-Oil-10430 ... af&vxp=mtr
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Thanks for the 'engine honey break down and use what ya think ya know best in this area but I now know lubrication for friction is the least important factor here as the super hardened spindle surface can not be bothered by the dissimilar metal sintered bronze bushes even bone dry but let the oil get low so the hardened spindle surface get exposed to humidity and oxygen - it decays into its own grinding compound. I was dismayed by even STP and grease like viscous breakin lube leaking all out of brand new custom perfect tight fit parts and seals over a winter set up so went the greaser route to essentially forget about it and never have someone else deal with rust fouled spindle. I tried the reservoir feed & sight tube though hollow center fixing bolt to see the flow rates down and out to realize it extra capacity made for extra clean up.
Nortoniggy
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I'm with Hobot. I mix any thick oil I have, usually grade 40 Silkolene, with 50% STP. Been lubing my swing arm that way for 40 years and never had an wear in the bushes.
Ian
Ian
Marathon Man
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just to disagree with the recommended choice of oil being 140
consider the job that oil is supposed to handle - getting down two tiny 1/16 or so holes and then finding its way between the spindle and cradle bushing
think YOU can handle that job?
ok, so when I first met Heinz Kegler 20 years ago and showed up at his garage for some Commando help he told his job with Berliner Corp, the east coast Norton importer, was to go around to all the dealerships and instruct the service departments in the care and feeding of Commandos
Heinz told me that there were many in the design department who felt that 140 weight oil was too thick to reliably under all temperatures get down those small spindle holes and felt that just regular weight motor oil would be a better choice
Heinz told me that when he went back to England with the early frame breaking reports he was told that the reason the factory listed the 140 weight versus a lighter weight was solely to "better keep the swing arm lube inside the end caps" as we all know it has a very strong desire to run out
made sense to me so I use a syringe to squirt 20-50 motor oil in through the middle bolt locating hole
blasphemy I know but no worse of an afterlife penalty than using ATF in the primary I suppose.....
consider the job that oil is supposed to handle - getting down two tiny 1/16 or so holes and then finding its way between the spindle and cradle bushing
think YOU can handle that job?
ok, so when I first met Heinz Kegler 20 years ago and showed up at his garage for some Commando help he told his job with Berliner Corp, the east coast Norton importer, was to go around to all the dealerships and instruct the service departments in the care and feeding of Commandos
Heinz told me that there were many in the design department who felt that 140 weight oil was too thick to reliably under all temperatures get down those small spindle holes and felt that just regular weight motor oil would be a better choice
Heinz told me that when he went back to England with the early frame breaking reports he was told that the reason the factory listed the 140 weight versus a lighter weight was solely to "better keep the swing arm lube inside the end caps" as we all know it has a very strong desire to run out
made sense to me so I use a syringe to squirt 20-50 motor oil in through the middle bolt locating hole
blasphemy I know but no worse of an afterlife penalty than using ATF in the primary I suppose.....
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well Dennis, when one takes the time to have end caps that actually seal it stays in there a long time
but you already knew that....
what do you suppose happens, think on it and report back
oh wait I get it, you are bored and just having fun trolling again, right?
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Why not drill the centre bolt and braze onto it a 3/16 piece of brake pipe. Secure a 3/16 id hose to it [ after refitting ] and fit another pc of 3/16 brake pipe into a 30mm squirt bottle. I mount one on each of my bikes. Suggest mounting with pipe down. drill a small hole in the upper are to squirt in 90 oil every now and again. My theory is that when it leaks out the bottom, it must have past through the bushes etc. Simple. What's wrong with wiping under you bike every now and again. I' s the only oil leak on my 750 apart from the crap thrown off the rear chain.
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1up3down said:
Not sure why you think I'm jerking your chain. I always assumed it was difficult to get the end caps to seal and why the wick system was use to hold the lube in there. Also thought that is why the heavy gear lube was specified. I won't talk to you again so you don't feel like I am doing something wrong. Sorry.
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Gosh if we could all have the successful long term sealing 1up/3dn described. I really thought with Peel's exqui$ite fitted parts with almost non drip thick mix I syringed in, I too could claim same as John. Nope. Main thing is keep enough in there, now and then to keep rust at bay and of course the lube function too. If the oil level is about full the thickness coldest gear lube will still flow just fine into the friction clearances, heck 140 grade may be too easy to leak out o-ring compression space, ugh. Keep in mind 90 grade gear lube equals 50 grade engine oil and 140 grade gear lube is about same as 70 grade engine oil, so not as extra thick as the numbers imply. If ya get the proper oil pump intended to fill via oil zerk in the spindle caps of 750's its easy enough to keep it mostly topped off though might keep a diaper under the less than perfectly fully fettered examples. I'm lazy and my cycles get set up unexpectedly months to seasons at a time and once the big hard issue is solved I jump on and ride, which if drained dry would rub things raw but a non issue with the greaser fix, if mods made so it lets grease inside.
http://www.doolittleoil.com/faq/viscosi ... so-or-agma
If sticking with actual oil might consider assembly lube.
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=384753
http://www.doolittleoil.com/faq/viscosi ... so-or-agma
If sticking with actual oil might consider assembly lube.
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=384753
I took a cheap grease gun and cleaned all the grease out of the pumper mechanism. I then took an empty grease cartridge and clean all the grease out of it.
Pull the charge/spring back with the empty cartridge in place, lock it and add some 140 or whatever you settle for. Screw the top on, release the charge/spring,
Loosen the screw on top of the swingarm tube, put the grease gun with oil in it to the zert and top it off until oil come out the bolt. Drain the oil from the gun back into the container.
Easy peezy. What's the big deal?
Assume some oil on frame and parts as a protectant. A ridden Norton will rarely rust. An unridden Norton one will be rusted up.
Pull the charge/spring back with the empty cartridge in place, lock it and add some 140 or whatever you settle for. Screw the top on, release the charge/spring,
Loosen the screw on top of the swingarm tube, put the grease gun with oil in it to the zert and top it off until oil come out the bolt. Drain the oil from the gun back into the container.
Easy peezy. What's the big deal?
Assume some oil on frame and parts as a protectant. A ridden Norton will rarely rust. An unridden Norton one will be rusted up.
Put mine back using 80/90 gear oil and drilled a hole in end cap plugged with a grommet
Then siliconed filled over the end caps to ensure grit stays out
One of these days I'll scrape away the silicone,remove the grommet and inject new oil and seal it up again
the MK 3 has no fill point but it sounds like other models might
Then siliconed filled over the end caps to ensure grit stays out
One of these days I'll scrape away the silicone,remove the grommet and inject new oil and seal it up again
the MK 3 has no fill point but it sounds like other models might
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Not sure how to digest this much info, When I took mine apart it was filled with grease. It had not leaked, but after 40 years there was some rust on the spindle, see photo. not gross, but it was there and I put in a new spindle.
Not sure of the fixes to keep the oil in, and it is back together so I think I will leave it. I guess I will start with the 140 oil and see how it leaks After all it is British and that is what anything British does, it leaks oil.
If it lasts another 40 years with no more rust than the old one had I'll be the same age as the oil weight and probably wont care, leave it for the next owner
Dennis
Not sure of the fixes to keep the oil in, and it is back together so I think I will leave it. I guess I will start with the 140 oil and see how it leaks After all it is British and that is what anything British does, it leaks oil.
If it lasts another 40 years with no more rust than the old one had I'll be the same age as the oil weight and probably wont care, leave it for the next owner
Dennis
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I haven't had any oil leaks from the swing arm since I installed new bushings/O-rings and the little washer (with a dab of Permatex Moto-Seal) and filled with 140. So I think it's possible to have an essentially leak-proof Swing Arm. I agree that 140 oil seems too heavy for proper lubrication but I haven't seen any wear since I installed the new bushings and swing arm clamps 5 years ago so I guess the 140 works ok.
FWIW, absent mindedness using a grease gun/oil to fill the spindle can blow the end caps off the swing arms and strip the threads of the long, thin screw. Yes, I know this from personal experience!
FWIW, absent mindedness using a grease gun/oil to fill the spindle can blow the end caps off the swing arms and strip the threads of the long, thin screw. Yes, I know this from personal experience!
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