Swing arm clearance?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Jul 23, 2020
Messages
29
Country flag
Quick newbie questions. I've replaced the very tired exhaust rubber bushes on my 68. 750. Not certain if they are standard but its got upswept pipes. I believe it should have left Plumstead with lower style pipes, but they are ok for now.

While I was changing the bushes I decided to replace all the bolts too and upon reassembly I've noticed that there's only about 10-15mm gap between the swing arm and the bolts holding the plate on the back the Z-plate. This means that if the swing arm moves left or right over 15mm then it could hit the nut/bolts holding the exhaust mount h/w. I did not notice this before, perhaps its normal? Shorter bolts won't help more than a couple of mm, hence the question. Any advice gratefully received as always.

Cheers,

Darren.
 
Tight clearances on a lot of components is common. I don't get worked up until I see signs of contact.
 
Your swing arm should not move at all side to side. 10-15mmn is plenty of clearance.
’68 production Commandos came with Atlas mufflers (silencer). The exhaust pipes were not up swept and also tucked inward at the head.
 
ok, thanks for the info everyone. Cheers, Darren.
So got it all back together again and have a follow-up question. When running I've still got a concerning amount of vibration in the fiberglass tail section and to a lessor extent the oil tank. In the video I've got the idle set to around 1500 rpms as I was struggling to get it started, and it does get better above 3000 rpm but am worried as I've already had to repair the tail when the number plate ejected itself. Worth mentioning as well that the video makes the vibration look better than it is, due to the frame rate being slow. I've not touched the isolastics yet in any way, they look on initial inspection to be relatively modern.



As always any advice gratefully received.

Cheers,

Darren.
 
My bike shakes badly until 2500 rpm and then all the vibes go like a light switch has turned them off, that is with original iso's. Tickover when warm should be 1000 to 1100 rpm, that is when the movement of the bike from vibration is the largest. There are harder ISO's about that make the vibes worse and also continue further up in the rev range until they disappear then it should feel like you are riding a magic carpet as long as the road is smooth.

Where is the video ? would be useful to compare.
 
My bike shakes badly until 2500 rpm and then all the vibes go like a light switch has turned them off, that is with original iso's. Tickover when warm should be 1000 to 1100 rpm, that is when the movement of the bike from vibration is the largest. There are harder ISO's about that make the vibes worse and also continue further up in the rev range until they disappear then it should feel like you are riding a magic carpet as long as the road is smooth.

Where is the video ? would be useful to compare.
Hi kommando, the video should have been embeded in the post above. In case I've messed up with the posting just go to youtube and search for "shaking tail on fastback". My bike is old and green. Only turned up the Idle as bike had wet-sumped a little and was struggling to start etc.
Cheers,
Darren.
 
Compare to this


Thanks for sharing video. Its hard to compare due to the differing resolutions & frame rates. The area I'm most concerned about is the vibration in the end of the fiberglass tailunit near the rear light as that's where I had the previous failure. In my case the bottom of the numberplate backing plate is vibrating with both a higher frequency (which you cann't really see on video) and the slower cyclic movements that you can.

Looking at the oil tank I can see there's some rubber mounts which I could renew which should help a little, but don't think there's anything for the tail fiberglass bits as it is mounted to top shock mounts, and then direct onto the mudguard and the rearloop with no isolation. I guess the rear iso could be too tight and thus the rear part of frame is taking the brunt of it?

Darren.
 
To me, it looks like your engine vibration is being transferred to your frame.
perhaps your rear isos need adjusting or changing.
Check if your rear iso bolt looks central in the tube. If it is lower than central then your rubbers are shot.
The other possibility is that some other component is touching the vibrating parts and transferring the vibration.
Certainly where I would investigate first. The rear iso often gets neglected because it’s a fair bit harder to replace.
 
To me, it looks like your engine vibration is being transferred to your frame.
perhaps your rear isos need adjusting or changing.
Check if your rear iso bolt looks central in the tube. If it is lower than central then your rubbers are shot.
The other possibility is that some other component is touching the vibrating parts and transferring the vibration.
Certainly where I would investigate first. The rear iso often gets neglected because it’s a fair bit harder to replace.
Thanks for the response - makes perfect sense.

Had a look at rear ISO but cannot really tell. Do I need to remove the Z-plate to check how central the bolt is? (Sorry if this is dumb question, am still finding my feet with this bike.)
Darren.
 
Not a dumb question. I had this problem but was ’lucky’ because my rear isos didn’t have gaiters fitted. This made it obvious to see that the bolt was off centre.
Take off your left side panel. If you do have gaiters you will have to peel them back. Then with a flashlight look to see if your iso adjuster or bolt looks central with the end cap.
Also look under your battery tray and check that the Bottom of the tray isn’t touching anything. If it touches then vibration will be directly transferred to the tray, oil tank and rear end.
Does the gap under the tray change significantly with the bike on and off the centre stand? If it is then your iso is bad.
IMHO, you won’t be really happy until you have replaced the iso rubbers.
If you do think the rubbers are relatively new then adjust or shim (depending on whether you have mark 3 type or original isos) to give 10 thou at the tightest point.
 
Not a dumb question. I had this problem but was ’lucky’ because my rear isos didn’t have gaiters fitted. This made it obvious to see that the bolt was off centre.
Take off your left side panel. If you do have gaiters you will have to peel them back. Then with a flashlight look to see if your iso adjuster or bolt looks central with the end cap.
Also look under your battery tray and check that the Bottom of the tray isn’t touching anything. If it touches then vibration will be directly transferred to the tray, oil tank and rear end.
Does the gap under the tray change significantly with the bike on and off the centre stand? If it is then your iso is bad.
IMHO, you won’t be really happy until you have replaced the iso rubbers.
If you do think the rubbers are relatively new then adjust or shim (depending on whether you have mark 3 type or original isos) to give 10 thou at the tightest point.
ok thanks. Had a look at both sides as it's challenging to see due to the lack of space on the shaft to move the gaiter out of the way. I'll take a stab at removing Z-plates, to take a look but given I don't know history, as you said I'll probably end up replacing the ISO.
 
This is an early fastback, judging by the style of oil tank. It probably has an original frame, which has a cross bar that runs under the cradle. On my 1968 fastback, the rear isolastic rubbers had sagged so much that the cradle was hammering into the crossbar. It vibrated like a son of a bitch!
Put the bike on the centerstand (if the centerstand mounts on the frame rather than the cradle, you have an early frame), and make sure that the cradle has adequate clearance above the frame.
 
This is an early fastback, judging by the style of oil tank. It probably has an original frame, which has a cross bar that runs under the cradle. On my 1968 fastback, the rear isolastic rubbers had sagged so much that the cradle was hammering into the crossbar. It vibrated like a son of a bitch!
Put the bike on the centerstand (if the centerstand mounts on the frame rather than the cradle, you have an early frame), and make sure that the cradle has adequate clearance above the frame.
Yes, its early number fastback with older style centerstand. Its a bugger to get onto the stand, which I believe is the norm for the early ones.
 
I don't think removing the z-plates will help much. I've had that area all apart and the z-plates stayed on. It is not that hard to change out the rubbers if needed if it still has the stock setup. Access is limited but it can be done. There are some gyrations to go through. Do a search for Mike Taglieri isolastics. Also lcrken has a variation on Mike's method.
 
I don't think removing the z-plates will help much. I've had that area all apart and the z-plates stayed on. It is not that hard to change out the rubbers if needed if it still has the stock setup. Access is limited but it can be done. There are some gyrations to go through. Do a search for Mike Taglieri isolastics. Also lcrken has a variation on Mike's method.
Thanks batrider, am bit restricted in terms of space so am nervous about starting something I'll struggle to complete. Definitely think its stock setup and everything looks old/tired/original.
 
Thanks batrider, am bit restricted in terms of space so am nervous about starting something I'll struggle to complete. Definitely think its stock setup and everything looks old/tired/original.
ok, according to Norman White's book it can only be done in-situ on a post 1970 bike due to lack of clearance. His suggestion to to remove gearbox, primary and pullout the cradle backwards with swingarm etc. This is probably why its not been done up to this point on this point. Thanks again for the advice. Cheers, Darren.
 
The Mike Tagleri method is simpler than the Norman White Factory approved version. Note a 72 has the centre stand on the cradle not the frame so check your centre stand mounts.

From Michael Taglieri

Subject: Easier Way to Rebuild the Rear Isolastic

The standard workshop manuals for the Commando generally tell you that the rear Isolastic mount can be rebuilt only by removing the engine, or even the entire power train. Today, helping Chuck Contrino rebuild the rear Isolastic on his '72 Interstate. I was finally able to test a procedure I've been contemplating for a long time that lets you rebuild the rear Isolastic without significantly dismantling the rest of the bike. It worked very well, and this is how you do it:

1. Remove the tank.

2. Remove the primary (optional -- see below).

3. Remove the horn (optional -- see below)

4. Remove the air filter(s) and the exhaust pipes.

5. Put the bike on the centerstand and fasten the centerstand with safety wire, electrical ties, bungee cords, etc., so it cannot possibly collapse. Do not fasten it to any part of the frame, but only to the engine plates or some other part of the bike that hangs on the Isolastic mounts.

6. Slightly loosen the nuts on the large central bolt that runs through the rear Isolastic, and also loosen the nuts on the headsteady.

7. Put a small hydraulic jack, etc., under the middle of the left frame tube (with padding to protect the frame) and slowly raise the side of the frame until the left foot of the centerstand just leaves the floor. At this point, the weight of the frame does not rest on the central bolt of the rear Isolastic, and you can remove it easily. Using a suitable drift (a 1/2" socket extension works well), tap the big bolt loose, catching the various metal parts of the Isolastic that fall free when it's out. (By the way, using a hydraulic jack this way is also useful for getting the bolt back IN when you're done, and you can look through the hole with a flashlight andove the frame until the parts are exactly aligned).

8. Lower the hydraulic jack. Now the frame is hanging on the powertrain by the front and top Isolastics, and the top Isolastics show it by twisting slightly under the weight. Lift the rear wheel (with a 2x4", brick, etc.) until the top Isolastics are no longer twisted. Now, remove the side plates of the top Isolastics. (You do not have to remove the engine steady from the top of the engine). 9. The powertrain is now resting on the floor, held up the centerstand, but it's attached to the rest of the bike only by the front Isolastic. Now, put more stuff under the rear wheel to raise the frame until the centerstand almost comes off the floor.

10. At this point, the frame tubes are out of the way and the rear Isolastic is completely exposed on both sides for rebuilding.

THE "OPTIONAL" STEPS: If you didn't remove the primary, the Isolastic is completely exposed only on the right side, and you will need some kind of hook to pull the rubber parts out. If you didn't remove the horn, the frame tubes will be partly out of the way but not entirely. I recommend taking off both of these items if you're removing the original Isolastic rubber parts, because if they're truly stuck in there, it's a %$#@ of a job to get them out. On the other hand, considering how awful a job it is to remove the horn, you may want to try this first with the horn in place and remove it only as a last resort. (By the way, if you pound on the central rubber with an ordinary drift to get it out, the rubber absorbs the shock of the hammer blows before they get transmitted to the edges. The best way is to pound on the edges of the rubber by using a very large socket on an extension as your drift).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top