Stupid Question: Difference between Wideline and Slimline
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Fast Eddie
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Re: Stupid Question: Difference between Wideline and Slimlin
FUD ... ?
FUD ... ?
lcrken
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Re: Stupid Question: Difference between Wideline and Slimlin
Used to be an acronym for Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt here in the US, but it may have a new meaning in the on-line all the time age. Somebody younger than me can probably let us know if that's the case.
Ken
Fast Eddie said:
Used to be an acronym for Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt here in the US, but it may have a new meaning in the on-line all the time age. Somebody younger than me can probably let us know if that's the case.
Ken
NoLongerHere
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Re: Stupid Question: Difference between Wideline and Slimlin
There was some partly scientific tests done on these I'm sure. The slimline, by virtue of the extra bends, was slightly stiffer than the wideline. Whether that made it handle any better they, unfortunately, didn't say.
There was some partly scientific tests done on these I'm sure. The slimline, by virtue of the extra bends, was slightly stiffer than the wideline. Whether that made it handle any better they, unfortunately, didn't say.
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Re: Stupid Question: Difference between Wideline and Slimlin
Typical !
And the frame guys get all technical and say that frame tubes should be straight not curved or bent,
and the whole featherbed frame idea is flawed, so there is more than way to cook your goose....
Typical !
And the frame guys get all technical and say that frame tubes should be straight not curved or bent,
and the whole featherbed frame idea is flawed, so there is more than way to cook your goose....
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Re: Stupid Question: Difference between Wideline and Slimlin
If I was building a Triton, I'd try to get the older manx frame with the bolt up rear end. If I wanted a comfortable equivalent or better, I'd simply buy a Bonneville of about 1963. I'd avoid the slimeline frame and tritons with unit construction motors fitted. If you want a triton, you are obviously after something which has a bit of period authenticity from the fifties. A Norton Manxman is a much better deal than a slimeline Triton, if you want sixties stuff.
Rohan, stick to your matchlesses, I've only ever seen two decent ones - the G90 and the mid sixties one which had a decent bottom end and an alloy barrel, the rest were crap.
If I was building a Triton, I'd try to get the older manx frame with the bolt up rear end. If I wanted a comfortable equivalent or better, I'd simply buy a Bonneville of about 1963. I'd avoid the slimeline frame and tritons with unit construction motors fitted. If you want a triton, you are obviously after something which has a bit of period authenticity from the fifties. A Norton Manxman is a much better deal than a slimeline Triton, if you want sixties stuff.
Rohan, stick to your matchlesses, I've only ever seen two decent ones - the G90 and the mid sixties one which had a decent bottom end and an alloy barrel, the rest were crap.
grandpaul
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Re: Stupid Question: Difference between Wideline and Slimlin
That is an inaccurate and overly generalized statement. I've got two of them, and neither one was for that reason, "obviously".
I wanted one because I've seen various photos of them since I was a kid growing into a teenager in the 60s. I always thought they looked like a bike should look. It's that simple. I had no clue of their heritage, or what anyone claimed made them "authentic".
When I finally found a SLIMLINE frame for a decent price, I had a choice to use a unit or pre-unit engine from several I had on the shelf. I chose unit because they are cleaner and easier to set up (I will admit this is a subjective opinion, my own). I had absolutely no regard for "period correctness", "authenticity" or any other such notion.
acotrel said:
That is an inaccurate and overly generalized statement. I've got two of them, and neither one was for that reason, "obviously".
I wanted one because I've seen various photos of them since I was a kid growing into a teenager in the 60s. I always thought they looked like a bike should look. It's that simple. I had no clue of their heritage, or what anyone claimed made them "authentic".
When I finally found a SLIMLINE frame for a decent price, I had a choice to use a unit or pre-unit engine from several I had on the shelf. I chose unit because they are cleaner and easier to set up (I will admit this is a subjective opinion, my own). I had absolutely no regard for "period correctness", "authenticity" or any other such notion.
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Re: Stupid Question: Difference between Wideline and Slimlin
I think you're striving for an idealised past. Almost all Tritons were built after the 1950s, although often out of 1950s Triumph parts. A substantial proportion of all the Featherbed ES2s and Model 50s ever made must have ended up as Tritons. And they were mostly 1959-on Slimlines. Rohan can tell me if I've got that wrong.
acotrel said:
I think you're striving for an idealised past. Almost all Tritons were built after the 1950s, although often out of 1950s Triumph parts. A substantial proportion of all the Featherbed ES2s and Model 50s ever made must have ended up as Tritons. And they were mostly 1959-on Slimlines. Rohan can tell me if I've got that wrong.
Fast Eddie
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Re: Stupid Question: Difference between Wideline and Slimlin
A Triton is by definition a special... ergo a customised machine.
There is not, never was, and never will be an 'authentic' Triton !!
It like saying 'a standard custom' its an oxymoron.
A Triton is by definition a special... ergo a customised machine.
There is not, never was, and never will be an 'authentic' Triton !!
It like saying 'a standard custom' its an oxymoron.
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Re: Stupid Question: Difference between Wideline and Slimlin
I just don't know whether there were wideline pushrod singles and am disinclined to research!
Rohan said:
I just don't know whether there were wideline pushrod singles and am disinclined to research!
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Re: Stupid Question: Difference between Wideline and Slimlin
The first Tritons were made in the fifties using the rolling chasses from Manx Nortons. The reason was that Norton would only ever sell you a complete Manx, no separate motors. The car guys who made the 500cc racing cars sometimes bought the whole bike just to get the Manx motor. And if you were unlucky enough to totally destroy your Manx motor while racing the bike , you had a real problem. The Triumph 650 motor was the answer to finding good bolt-up power. Slimline Tritons were a later invention and were not as good as the unit 650 Bonneville which began in 1963. Seriously you would not bother, and building a unit Bonnie motor into a featherbed is a waste of both the frame and the motor. The motor can never be in the right place to give decent handling and no chain problems. It is always either too far forward or too far back.
About 10 years ago I was in a bike shop in Melbourne and saw a 7R AJS motor in a featherbed frame with 7R hubs - a very nice bike and probably raced very well. It would be worth buying for the parts. As for racing it - a waste of good bits. That is not what historic racing should be about.
If you've got a slimline featherbed frame, fit a Norton twin motor into it. Then you won't be wasting it. The Norton Manxman 650 was a superb bike, probably the best standard British twin ever. I've had too much involvement with Tritons and I sincerely wish I'd put the same effort into a near stock 650cc Norton twin. My life would have been a lot different.
If you really must use a unit 650 Bonnie motor in a hybrid, the Mk3 Seeley frame is almost the correct length in the engine bay. In my bike the separate gearbox is very close to the back of the engine. Even then you might not have enough weight on the front wheel to make the handling feel positive.
The first Tritons were made in the fifties using the rolling chasses from Manx Nortons. The reason was that Norton would only ever sell you a complete Manx, no separate motors. The car guys who made the 500cc racing cars sometimes bought the whole bike just to get the Manx motor. And if you were unlucky enough to totally destroy your Manx motor while racing the bike , you had a real problem. The Triumph 650 motor was the answer to finding good bolt-up power. Slimline Tritons were a later invention and were not as good as the unit 650 Bonneville which began in 1963. Seriously you would not bother, and building a unit Bonnie motor into a featherbed is a waste of both the frame and the motor. The motor can never be in the right place to give decent handling and no chain problems. It is always either too far forward or too far back.
About 10 years ago I was in a bike shop in Melbourne and saw a 7R AJS motor in a featherbed frame with 7R hubs - a very nice bike and probably raced very well. It would be worth buying for the parts. As for racing it - a waste of good bits. That is not what historic racing should be about.
If you've got a slimline featherbed frame, fit a Norton twin motor into it. Then you won't be wasting it. The Norton Manxman 650 was a superb bike, probably the best standard British twin ever. I've had too much involvement with Tritons and I sincerely wish I'd put the same effort into a near stock 650cc Norton twin. My life would have been a lot different.
If you really must use a unit 650 Bonnie motor in a hybrid, the Mk3 Seeley frame is almost the correct length in the engine bay. In my bike the separate gearbox is very close to the back of the engine. Even then you might not have enough weight on the front wheel to make the handling feel positive.
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Re: Stupid Question: Difference between Wideline and Slimlin
Well, tell us what the owner/factory did about it then. It must have happened a few times!
acotrel said:
Well, tell us what the owner/factory did about it then. It must have happened a few times!
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Re: Stupid Question: Difference between Wideline and Slimlin
I rather suspect that Aco is talking through his hat on this one.
It was said that dealers made a good income from selling spares - if owners didn't get them out the factory back door somehow.
Which was a very widespread form of 'trade support' for some years apparently.
This before my time though, and my ouija board is out of action.
And you see quite a few samples of dead manx parts at swapmeets, if you watch for them.
Wasn't it said that they had at least 20 ways of failing to proceed, never the same one twice...
acotrel said:
Triton Thrasher said:
I rather suspect that Aco is talking through his hat on this one.
It was said that dealers made a good income from selling spares - if owners didn't get them out the factory back door somehow.
Which was a very widespread form of 'trade support' for some years apparently.
This before my time though, and my ouija board is out of action.
And you see quite a few samples of dead manx parts at swapmeets, if you watch for them.
Wasn't it said that they had at least 20 ways of failing to proceed, never the same one twice...
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Re: Stupid Question: Difference between Wideline and Slimlin
Well, actually, the ES2 and (I think) the Model 50 didn't go slimline until 1961 was it. ?
Having introduced tham as widelines in 1959, they weren't going to give up on them after just one year.
(Or sales weren't quite what they had planned for ?)
I must say that about half the Tritons I have taken note of have been slimlines,
and as a 'special' the concept that there is some standard to judge them by seems somewhat odd.
Triton Thrasher said:
Well, actually, the ES2 and (I think) the Model 50 didn't go slimline until 1961 was it. ?
Having introduced tham as widelines in 1959, they weren't going to give up on them after just one year.
(Or sales weren't quite what they had planned for ?)
I must say that about half the Tritons I have taken note of have been slimlines,
and as a 'special' the concept that there is some standard to judge them by seems somewhat odd.
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Re: Stupid Question: Difference between Wideline and Slimlin
Standards? There's "looking like a Manx" and "running well."
Mine looks unlike a Manx and it blew up last night!
Rohan said:
Standards? There's "looking like a Manx" and "running well."
Mine looks unlike a Manx and it blew up last night!