Stainless bolt kits for MK 3

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valiant

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Hey guys, It's alan from Australia and i am currently restoring a 1974 Norton commando 850 MK 3 roadster. I am just wondering wether there is a company that supplies a complete stainless fastener kit for both engine and frame components? I am aware that all components are available separately however i am just looking for a simpler way of ordering. Otherwise does anyone have a list of all stanless nuts and bolts that are needed for the 850 commando mk 3. any help would be appreciated.
 
I haven't seen a complete kit offered. I have been replacing mine a few bits at a time buying the common stuff at a local hardware that handles stainless nuts, bolts, washers and allens (hex heads). Most of the big stuff is SAE thread and can be found locally. Some things, like engine and carb hardware have BS or Whitworth threads and may be easier to find in the UK. Specialty items like the upper shock bolts with the extensions for the seat brackets are only going to come from a specialty maker. There's a guy on Ebay that goes by the user name of bsanut whose store is known as Eurotrash Jambalaya that offers most of the special fasteners and things like pegs and peg mounts. A complete kit would cost a pretty penny.
 
Rocky Point Cycle:

http://www.rockypointcycle.com/Merchant ... e_Code=RPC

Stan Smith's place, he has real quality 304 and 316 stainless fasteners and accessories and his catalog is laid out such that you can buy as you go. I replaced all the fasteners on my Mk III with SS from RPC, great stuff. Do be careful when purchasing from your local hardware store (same here) those fasteners are typically ungraded and are referred to as "butter bolts".

RS
 
Most of the UNF/UNC items can be purchased from boltdepot.com in the US, but you need to know the sizes you need. They are quite a bit cheaper than buying from a bike store and it is graded stuff. I don't know how the AU currency vs. the USD and the Pound, but the UK stainless specialty items are about 1/2 the USD price, for example, the gearbox outcover bolts are around 23USD at a US dealer but 6.6pounds or 10USD at RGM . Of course shipping is going to kill you unless you buy a lot of items. RGM in UK has quite a few stainless items. Be careful with the cylinder and head nuts and bolts. there is a lot of variation there.

Dave
69S
 
CNW sells some nice stuff. Almost all engine bolts, engine mounting and iso studs will have polished ends and same with the button head fasteners they sell. Some of the larger stuff from Rocky Point is polished while some smaller bits are just regular off the shelf socket head stuff.
 
There use to be a guy in Australia that did stainless. Velco Engineering. His website is down and I don't know how to find him now. He had Norton and Bultaco stainless parts.
 
RoadScholar said:
.... real quality 304 and 316 stainless fasteners ... typically ungraded and are referred to as "butter bolts".
Click to expand...

Sorry, but even in 304 or 316 SS bolts are butter bolts. The tensile strength R_m of these is 500 to 550 MPa which should be even below a suspension bolt from the 60ies or 70ies. An SS bolt in suspension mounts is really a bad idea - even on the engine it is questionable at least.


Tim
 
I have added stainless nuts to the stock suspension bolts. The upper and lower shock bolts are specialties not found in normal hardware bins. Footpeg mounting bolts seem substantial enough and small bolts like the ones that fasten the cover to the oil tank are not stressed. Have not replaced the allens in the lower triple clamp, but I have seen fork top nuts in stainless and alloy. I know many vintage car enthusiasts that substitute stainless bolts and nuts (satin finished) for cadmium and zinc plated stock hardware with no problems.
 
I've heard a lot of horror stories about stainless rear axles snapping and have personally see stainless headbolts that were severely necked from stretching. Two areas I am very leery about using stainless. That being said, there are a lot of Nortons with stainless head bolts that apparently are doing just fine!

My guess is the good ones are made from something other than 18-8 stainless. ARP claims their stainless automotive head bolts are made from "stainless 300" and have a yield strength of 140,000psi and a tensile strength of 170,00psi. Grade 8 is 120,00 and 150,000 respectively!

My metallurgy knowledge is limited to one semester of Chem-Met 250 back when I thought I wanted to be an engineer some 40 years ago, so I don't claim any expertise here.
 
I'll bet most critical parts like axles and iso studs are not 304 0r 316 stainless. I'm betting either 416 or 630 stainless steel or something similar.
 
I'd be very cautious about using stainless hardware on stressed locations like suspensions or engine studs or head bolts. The 300 series of steels are very stainless but very soft. It's non-magnetic which is one way to identify it, so if a magnet won't pick it up, I wouldn't be using it for axles or any load bearing stuff. 416 has enough carbon to heat treat but it won't be very hard in absolute terms (it's often used in rifle barrels). The 440s can be made quite hard but probably are not being used for bolts. These steels are magnetic by the way.
One of the quotes I remember from Caroll Smith's book "Prepare to Win" is "use no SAE (or lesser) bolts on a race car". Since motorcycles, like race cars, don't have a lot of extra, non-essential stuff on them, I'm always a little particular about things like fasteners on my motorbikes.
 
Classic fasteners in South Australia have everything that you need - their on the web. They have some general kits for restorations or you can order whatever you need individually.
 
I got my 850 MkIIa fully kitted out from RGM, but you still have to identify all the bits you need.

It seems some people have heard horror stories about stainless failing in critical locations, but to be honest, I lead a sheltered life :oops: and haven't heard any first-hand accounts.

I run a T140 with stainless wheel spindles, and my total ignorance of the danger means I still enjoy thrashing it around the local lanes.

Are my days numbered????
 
And thanks for the link to rocky Point Cycles. I ordered some specialty stuff from them .
 
A Stainless Steel thread is almost as entertaining as an Oil thread; everyone has an opinion.

Rocky Point Cycle has been selling stainless fasteners since 1982 with no accidents, fatalities or fasteners failures. I do not have the knowledge of some of the members, I am not a metallugist, but history and personal experience supports my continued use of the stainless fasteners that I can purchase from Rock Point Cycle. For all you nay sayers chew on this: All the machines that come out of CNW are fit with fasteners from RPC. I doubt that CNW has the resources to risk its customners lives, unlike Toyota.

I have no doubt that stainless fasteners with higher zoot numbers or ones that are alloyed with unobtanium would be better, but getting someone to make them with archaic thread pitchs in unique shapes and lengths would cost a fortune and take forever; I'm building a Norton(s) not a space shuttle.

RS
 
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