Sleeve gear Problem?

have contacted Andover about this, and I had a fairly detailed reply from Ashley. He has discovered that there were changes to both the sleeve gear and the layshaft 4th over time, and that the markings in the layshaft 4th do not necessarily define exactly which version it is. His recommendation is that, when layshaft 4th is marked with a '9', that these are always replaced as a pair with the sleeve gear.

I also have a 1972 750. SN #2084xx. The original layshaft 4th is devoid of any markings whatsoever. Nothing. I have a new sleeve gear and bearing from Andover Norton. Sleeve gear 06.5954. Bearing 04.0098.

Due to tooth wear I had intended on replacing the original layshaft 4th with one sourced from a used gearbox. That gear has a "9" stamp. Based on the quoted posting it would seem this is not advisable and I should instead acquire a new layshaft 4th to better match the new 06.5954??



On a related but separate issue... Has anyone had experience with a sleeve gear bearing whose inner bore/race does not run true with the outer race??
 
I also have a 1972 750. SN #2084xx. The original layshaft 4th is devoid of any markings whatsoever. Nothing. I have a new sleeve gear and bearing from Andover Norton. Sleeve gear 06.5954. Bearing 04.0098.

Due to tooth wear I had intended on replacing the original layshaft 4th with one sourced from a used gearbox. That gear has a "9" stamp. Based on the quoted posting it would seem this is not advisable and I should instead acquire a new layshaft 4th to better match the new 06.5954??



On a related but separate issue... Has anyone had experience with a sleeve gear bearing whose inner bore/race does not run true with the outer race??
Have you read through the link I posted above? Look closely at the sleeve Gear bearing in the image that I marked up. Pay no attention to the detractors who had no idea what they were looking at. In that particular case the sleeve Gear bearing supplied, was a modified Bearing where they had enlarged the ID of the inner race. What that did was effectively reduce the radius. That radius is meant to clear the shoulder on the mating part, in this case the sleeve gear. I had a wobbling. Once I discovered that the shoulder was hung up due to the lack of radius, I used a different bearing. Had it been ground out of concentric also? Possibly so. Been in the metal trade my whole life I've seen all kinds of crazy things.
 
Have you read through the link I posted above? Look closely at the sleeve Gear bearing in the image that I marked up. Pay no attention to the detractors who had no idea what they were looking at. In that particular case the sleeve Gear bearing supplied, was a modified Bearing where they had enlarged the ID of the inner race. What that did was effectively reduce the radius. That radius is meant to clear the shoulder on the mating part, in this case the sleeve gear. I had a wobbling. Once I discovered that the shoulder was hung up due to the lack of radius, I used a different bearing. Had it been ground out of concentric also? Possibly so. Been in the metal trade my whole life I've seen all kinds of crazy things.

I am neither machinist nor engineer, I sometimes struggle to follow writeups here. That said I think I understand what you are detailing here.

I think the issue I am seeing exists in the bearing itself. The bearing in question came sealed in what looks to be original KSM packaging inside Andover Norton packaging.

With the bearing installed in the gearbox shell, and no sleeve gear inserted, I place a dial indicator against the face of the inner race. The same surface that the gearbox sprocket spacer 04.0131 will set against. If I try to move the inner race around to check for movement there is essentially none. Only with considerable force can I get a few ten thousandths to show on the dial indicator. So the bearing internals seem very tight, perhaps by design.

However, if I rotate the inner race there is a repeatable approximately 0.002" rise and fall shown on the dial indicator. This can be measured at both faces of the inner race, inside or outside the gearbox shell. I put a sharpie mark on the inner race so it can be seen that this is repeatable in the same place.

Insert the sleeve gear and place a dial indicator near the end of the sleeve gear, towards the clutch hub drive end. Rotate the sleeve gear and there is about 0.004" runout there, repeatable in relation to the inner race regardless of bearing to sleeve gear orientation.

With a mainshaft and inner gearbox cover installed there is increased drag between the mainshaft and sleeve gear at one point in the sleeve gear rotation. At the opposite point in sleeve gear rotation the mainshaft spins quite freely.

Keeping in mind this is not a race build, indeed I suspect I will do very little actual riding once I get this all back together I am tempted to go with it. But am curious if others think this is bad idea or is it making mountains out of a molehill?
 
Due to tooth wear I had intended on replacing the original layshaft 4th with one sourced from a used gearbox. That gear has a "9" stamp. Based on the quoted posting it would seem this is not advisable and I should instead acquire a new layshaft 4th to better match the new 06.5954??
That's my understanding of the recommendation from Ashley at AN, and it is what I have done. I am currently putting it all back together. I'll let you know how it goes. Gears are expensive, but you don't what to have to take it all apart again.
 
I am neither machinist nor engineer, I sometimes struggle to follow writeups here. That said I think I understand what you are detailing here.

I think the issue I am seeing exists in the bearing itself. The bearing in question came sealed in what looks to be original KSM packaging inside Andover Norton packaging.

With the bearing installed in the gearbox shell, and no sleeve gear inserted, I place a dial indicator against the face of the inner race. The same surface that the gearbox sprocket spacer 04.0131 will set against. If I try to move the inner race around to check for movement there is essentially none. Only with considerable force can I get a few ten thousandths to show on the dial indicator. So the bearing internals seem very tight, perhaps by design.

However, if I rotate the inner race there is a repeatable approximately 0.002" rise and fall shown on the dial indicator. This can be measured at both faces of the inner race, inside or outside the gearbox shell. I put a sharpie mark on the inner race so it can be seen that this is repeatable in the same place.

Insert the sleeve gear and place a dial indicator near the end of the sleeve gear, towards the clutch hub drive end. Rotate the sleeve gear and there is about 0.004" runout there, repeatable in relation to the inner race regardless of bearing to sleeve gear orientation.

With a mainshaft and inner gearbox cover installed there is increased drag between the mainshaft and sleeve gear at one point in the sleeve gear rotation. At the opposite point in sleeve gear rotation the mainshaft spins quite freely.

Keeping in mind this is not a race build, indeed I suspect I will do very little actual riding once I get this all back together I am tempted to go with it. But am curious if others think this is bad idea or is it making mountains out of a molehill?
Two thousandths runout is totally rejectable. You won't see that on a Chinese scooter.
 
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Ball bearing tolerances are measured in microns, that bearing is toast. Volume production on imperial bearings is dwindling fast especially where the original was a variation of a standard bearing which this sleeve bearing is. So the standard bearing is made low volume and any variation ie a larger ID is even lower volume and instead a standard bearing is taken and the inner ground out to size.
 
that bearing is toast.

I was afraid of that. I guess it should be common practice to measure such things even when new before ever installing them.

I have some sleeve gear bearings of Chinese origin recommended by Greg Marsh. I see they have quite a bit of play in the internals. Greater than the runout I am seeing in the KSM bearing. If the KSM had more internal clearance I may have never noticed the runout.
 
I was afraid of that. I guess it should be common practice to measure such things even when new before ever installing them.

I have some sleeve gear bearings of Chinese origin recommended by Greg Marsh. I see they have quite a bit of play in the internals. Greater than the runout I am seeing in the KSM bearing. If the KSM had more internal clearance I may have never noticed the runout.
Can you post a picture of the setup measuring the runout?
 
Well let me see if this works....
There should be a video here at this link...

Edit: I added a second video showing the sleeve gear runout caused by the bearing.

The videos show it well. It could be that the ball groove on the inner race was somehow ground out of perpendicular. Maybe try another bearing preferably from a different batch run
 
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