Seeking head ringer with Tricorder please

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Seeking head ringer with Tricorder please

Seeking head ringer with Tricorder please


I want to know the fundamental sound frequency of a Norton head both attached and free when its struck enough to make it ring enough a iphone app could record and display it. I'm guessing 6-7Khz so would want to let 13Khz though. Hm on this note, just how would-should one go about inducing some knock in a Commando to test for?

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=2082311
http://www.google.com/#psj=1&q=knock+sensor+frequency
 
About 1 out of 10 tanks of pump gas "premium" I'll get slight spark knock when lugging... So just boot your timing up a bit and you can easily create it. I assume you're engineering a knock sensor for Peeler project?
 
Only one thing really motivates me to public embarrassment Mike. I only think I can use this as a microphone for headphones, not 'puterized processed so a 'puter brain can work with it. It might be rigged to trigger Powerarch curve change but boost PSI switch ahead of detonation onset zone makes more sense to me. Lugging is just a fact of Ozark off highway commutes and worse on po folks driveways. Not in high gear stupid jerking chugging lugging, but still dang high-ish throttle w/0 any rpm increase. The obvious place is center of head and Peels hole is vacant a long time. Then there's pushing Peel's luck with my twitchy Lake injector hand. Lots to learn on these buggers, but for our clunkers will need a broadband into the 2nd order freq, ie: over 12grand otherwise as engine reaches say 6700 rpm the sensor goes off to shut auto pilots down or cover up real detonation events. The other interesting thing with headphones is said to hear all sorts of sounds that later may help alert or diagnose or monitor wear or change in tune. Hm wonder if youtube has audio examples?
 
Why not just buy a knock sensor, on bay of fools for bucks.
Watching the output (volts) will tell you when it thinks it hears a-knocking...

Course, wiring it in so it does something useful, on the fly, is a whole another kettle'o'fish.
 
Well this is my deepest look at these things and generally they want senor most sensitive in the tone that detonation makes in a particular engine so didn't have a clue till now what to look for. This is for Peel in Ozarks so can't look off path much while pressing into detonation testing on the fly. Basically got the idea now, just adv till static then back off. Once dialed in won't need to listen in but now and then for other things. If I can't hear up to 15Khz will have to have a light flasher and data logging to check. Running just a tad of detonation makes best power though.
 
hobot said:
Running just a tad of detonation makes best power though.

Where did this gem of 'info' come from ?

A smooth controlled burn is totally what is needed.
And what makes engines last...

Airplanes of the piston engine variety take off on the 'full rich' setting - for a VERY good reason.
That ~90 seconds is the toughest workout they get in their lives.

Any hint of detonation will superheat, and possibly warp, the valves.
And maybe all the other top end components.
Power gone, game over.....
 
Rohan Peel drives me to edges of destruction as more fun to get away with. Peels configuration is against the grain of most boosted wisdom, so catch up here and get back to us. Peel is made to open up and look in and help calibrate sensor sounds to just the right amount of detonation to get blasted. I had to put bits & pieces together and just found this tonight on aircraft operation, especially the high performance ones form the factory. Note explosions are 2 levels, deflageration expansion speeds up to the sound barrier of conditions while detonation exceeds speed of sound, therefore more a shock wave smacker than pressure wave pusher. Also water clusters efficiently absorb infra red heat rays, which makes CO2 excess a political science.
At fastest piston speeds the piston can also throw a shock wave pressure front ahead of and faster that its crown rises. I know I'll attempt to tune Peel to detonate some times so finally learning how much is enough.

http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182132-1.html
 
hobot said:
Rohan Peel drives me to edges of destruction as more fun to get away with. Peels configuration is against the grain of most boosted wisdom, so catch up here and get back to us.

If you had a sophisticated engine lab, then there may be something to catch up on.
Like running it as a diesel.

Otherwise, no offence, wise heads might just say this is hillbilly talk, verging on BS..... ?!
Detonation = death, remember that, and repent !
 
It's simple Hobot and you dont have to waste money on batterys. Wrap a coathanger around your head and ears area then touch Norton head with the hanger end where noises eminate from. Das boot engineer steel rod diesel submarine listening comes to mind here. So much noise, so little time to fix.
 
yep they spread it a lot around here where often only 87 octane is sold. Peel's a test case to see what I can get away with and grasping at straws to do so. If you are a m/c rider risker then I've nil respect for any of your common sense nonsense, so here's a few more gems to get a grip on scope of detonation. IF not for Peel's links allowing controlled crash handling I'd not be so brave to risk power plant excesses. I want spiked torque hits to more than equal tire smash spring back so could hit lugging detonation spikes at 5500 and keep on trucking. Just to keep a toe hold on logic online calc's show Peel will have enough octane to maintain max pressure spark advance up to diesel-ish 17ish to one.

Chronic Detonation is way more common than expected. Heck how do any us know if we ain't and don't even know it.
http://www.contactmagazine.com/Issue54/ ... asics.html
 
Well wasn't that the "thought-starter". Visions of my trip to a Wisconsin rally way back when with Cowboy Curtis on his 650 Triumph. Pulling the plugs at a bar as he coasted in dead to view 2 holes in the piston tops from pre-ignition and watching him get drunk fast and crying and passing out behind a bush. Fun. I continued alone on a beautifull summer night to arrive at 2 a.m. ish. Sheeze.
 
I want to know the fundamental sound frequency of a Norton head both attached and free when its struck enough to make it ring enough a iphone app could record and display it. I'm guessing 6-7Khz so would want to let 13Khz though. Hm on this note, just how would-should one go about inducing some knock in a Commando to test for?

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=2082311
http://www.google.com/#psj=1&q=knock+sensor+frequency[/quote]

What the fuck for steve??

its a motorbike

ride the fucker like you stole it and die living
 
To induce a sound or frequency similar to pre-ignition, lightly tap cylinder/head with metal such as a light hammer! This is how you test the knock sensor on modern motors, try it when the motor is warm and if all is working you should hear revs drop off as advance is reduced! I kid you not!
foxy
 
Yes Foxy i have determined the hi pitched ringing we hear in normal valve train is from the head itself and almost same tapping head on the bench, so want to know what the basic tone is. With feedback for those who have tried this its fiipped my head around on seeking senor tuned to the head sounds as may overwhelm detonation. Best would be to only sample sensor in the TDC area with valves shut and ping knock most likely to hit.
 
Tuning knock sensors can be an art, depending on how sophisticated/powerful your electronics are.

Folks move the sensor around to find the best spot, one that picks up detonation but not valve train or piston slap or wrist pin noise; they also put fiber or soft metal washers under it to attenuate/tune the signal.
 
In another forum where hobot apparently asked this question, Comnoz posted this in reply..
With his fuel injection systems for Commandos perfected and available for sale, must be one of the Norton electronic gurus....

I'm glad Nortons don't fly.

The only times I have heard continuous detonation in a Norton motor was about 5 second before piston failure.

I have never had any luck in sensing detonation with a detonation sensor on a Norton. I have never been able to filter out all the "normal" noises a Norton motor makes.
My fuel injection system has an input for a detonation sensor along with filtering software. I gave up trying to use it on my Norton although it works well on my turbocharged van motor. Jim
 
Huh, Rohan missed it was Jim as different handle and I only got a few neurons left to focus on anything. Seems Nortons are too crude-noisy for knock sensors electric signals but just a robust microphone for headphones. Looking into this listening stuff reveals many hi end builders just placed a tube in their ear from dyno cell or from under hood into cabin, so might be good enough for me. If no one can sample head/cylinder ring I've a xyliphone 'toy' with perfect pitch scale of notes [used to challenge & program children-adults with learning-attention-behavior syndromes] so may at least put close number on the head base note.

Seeking head ringer with Tricorder please


Seeking head ringer with Tricorder please
 
Old aircraft book states "in all cases best power made with slight detonation." Best not to detonate at all for normal use and lasting engines but not the most powerful operation you can get away with. Diesel have some rpm limit issues d/t being detonation ignited they can't develop ignition before TDC or then tend to develop way too much before TDC.

If ya care squint at this can find the statements and what they did about it to stay in air longer.
http://books.google.com/books?id=mCBJAQ ... wer&f=true
 
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