RGM close ratio gear kit

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Sorry to not reply directly to your question but, having used close ration gear boxes for other applications.
I will offer the CR box is a mistake except to accommodate the significant narrowing of the engine torque curve by hot rodding of the engine.
On a standard engine a CR box serves for bragging rites only...IMO.
I own a RGM kit for the 5 pairs (4 race + daytona 1st) and Johnm offered to confirm my view .
Durability unverified sorry. (still in the box on the shelf)
 
Sorry to not reply directly to your question but, having used close ration gear boxes for other applications.
I will offer the CR box is a mistake except to accommodate the significant narrowing of the engine torque curve by hot rodding of the engine.
On a standard engine a CR box serves for bragging rites only...IMO.
I own a RGM kit for the 5 pairs (4 race + daytona 1st) and Johnm offered to confirm my view .
Durability unverified sorry. (still in the box on the shelf)
Thank you Dave. After looking more closely at the gear ratios of the CR kit, I see your point.

Out of curiosity, who is Johnm?

Ed
 
I have a Daytona 1st gear from RGM in my otherwise std Commando gearbox.
Must have well over 70 000 km by now.
I ride a lot on mountain roads, and occasionally dirt roads, so I use 1st gear a lot.
No problems so far.
But : I you want your gearbox sprockets to last, you should have a belt drive, and the lightest possible clutch assy.
 
I have a Daytona 1st gear from RGM in my otherwise std Commando gearbox.
Must have well over 70 000 km by now.
I ride a lot on mountain roads, and occasionally dirt roads, so I use 1st gear a lot.
No problems so far.
But : I you want your gearbox sprockets to last, you should have a belt drive, and the lightest possible clutch assy.

As I am in the process of building an Atlas and converting to a commando clutch with a belt drive and was wondering if anyone has used the aluminum clutch center sold by RGM? I know you can buy friction plates with alloy (Barnett) and have seen in the past friction plates in alloy, but I can't seem to find those for sale. Maybe because they don't last very long? My goal is to do just that and try to get the weight down. Don't mean to hijack this thread, sorry,
 
If you but a gear set of modern ,manufacture, you might get better steel. I used a 4 speed close ratio set for racing. I tired using the standard ratio and it was simply appalling - too slow everywhere. A close box gives you much better acceleration as you come up through the gears, and it is much smoother coming down. So you become all round faster. It might be wasted on a road bike. The only problem I has with the close ratios was first gear was too high. If I was going to use a 4-speed close set in a road bike, I would use the standard first gear and live with the gap between first and second.
A while back, I made a conscious choice to race me Seeley 850 instead of a TZ350G. I sold the TZ and bought a 6 speed TTI box, which I still have not used in anger. The next time i race, if ever - I will not be making slow starts in races. I will burn their backsides. A lot of the secret of going fat on a motorcycle, lies in the gearbox. If you have not got it, you have not got the bike you need.
 
I was planning to use that lightweight RGM centre then read that it was mainly for racing, not designed for longevity. Was hoping it was made of some magical al.alloy that would wear like hardened steel, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
I love aluminium for a lot of things but there are some places where it just doesn't work....for very long.
Now if they were properly anodized they might stand a chance for a few thousand miles.
I did not see any mention of anodizing in the RGM description.

Glen
 
My other project is an Egli frame, into which I have built an H1 Kawsaki engine. The engine iis an H! Kawasaki engine fitted with RD350 barrels. It is 600cc and has TZ750 port timings and reed valves. When I started building it, I had a chance of getting an H1R 6-speed gear set, but I missed-out on it. I'm stuck with the standard Kawsaki 5 speed box. The bike will probably still be fast, but more difficult to ride. If you cannot be smooth and fast on a race bike, life is much more difficult.
 
Hortons Norton and Worntorn:
I have alloy clutch centres (rgm) in my 2 bikes.
The first one is anodized, the second not.
Around 150 000 km combined.
Absolutely no wear at all, but then I only use the original full fibre friction plates. IMO still the best, but they must be kept free from oil contamination.
 
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I was planning to use that lightweight RGM centre then read that it was mainly for racing, not designed for longevity. Was hoping it was made of some magical al.alloy that would wear like hardened steel, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
I love aluminium for a lot of things but there are some places where it just doesn't work....for very long.
Now if they were properly anodized they might stand a chance for a few thousand miles.
I did not see any mention of anodizing in the RGM description.

Glen
I don't even use an alunimium rear sprocket. You can lighten a steel sprocket more without weakening it.
 
There you go, a real life test vs advertising.
In this case the advertising understated the durability of the product, but that is typical of Roger. Oh well, might have to put this hardened steel centre on a shelf and order the RGM aluminium.
 
Hi Ludwig. What size countershaft sprocket do you use?
I have a Daytona 1st gear from RGM in my otherwise std Commando gearbox.
Must have well over 70 000 km by now.
I ride a lot on mountain roads, and occasionally dirt roads, so I use 1st gear a lot.
No problems so far.
But : I you want your gearbox sprockets to last, you should have a belt drive, and the lightest possible clutch assy.
 
I have a Daytona 1st gear from RGM in my otherwise std Commando gearbox.
Must have well over 70 000 km by now.
I ride a lot on mountain roads, and occasionally dirt roads, so I use 1st gear a lot.
No problems so far.
But : I you want your gearbox sprockets to last, you should have a belt drive, and the lightest possible clutch assy.
Hi Ludwig. What size countershaft sprocket do you use?
 
I recently went down from 20 to 19, but that is not very relevant, because I have a different primary ratio, 40 T rear and 18" wheels.
so to be more specific what is your over all final drive ratio.
 
I have the RGM gear set in my 750. I like it a lot except around town. On the oped roads it's much kinder to the engine not having such a large gap between gears. As for longevity it's only done about 6,000 miles as I have quite a few other bikes to ride, but up to now it's fine. My prefered option is the five speed TTi on my 920 as the first gear is 2.35:1 as opposed to 2:05:1.

Martyn.
 
If you but a gear set of modern ,manufacture, you might get better steel. I used a 4 speed close ratio set for racing. I tired using the standard ratio and it was simply appalling - too slow everywhere. A close box gives you much better acceleration as you come up through the gears, and it is much smoother coming down. So you become all round faster. It might be wasted on a road bike. The only problem I has with the close ratios was first gear was too high. If I was going to use a 4-speed close set in a road bike, I would use the standard first gear and live with the gap between first and second.
A while back, I made a conscious choice to race me Seeley 850 instead of a TZ350G. I sold the TZ and bought a 6 speed TTI box, which I still have not used in anger. The next time i race, if ever - I will not be making slow starts in races. I will burn their backsides. A lot of the secret of going fat on a motorcycle, lies in the gearbox. If you have not got it, you have not got the bike you need.
Your point is that a close ratio box is for racing where it offers less compromise to external conditions and using it assumes it is all about keeping revs above a given threshold.

The biggest issue will always be first gear being too high for most standing start events, ask a Goldie owner who still has the RRT2 box about that, a race box delivered in volume on a 'road bike'!

When race bikes were push started high first gears were never a problem, often they made life easier because you could start the bike in that gear, the Daytona gear was only important to maintain a kick start provision as required by regulations, and you were not expected to need the gear again after the start!

Since ratios are a simple choice for a manufacture of road motorcycles resolved by testing in road conditions, the cost of individually selected ratios isn't an issue. We know they didn't always get it right, but broadly they provide a set of compromises that suite most road situations.

Ludwig describes a compromise that suits him better due to his specific riding environment. Most riders and their local environments don't need to make that additional compromise and are well suited by the road gearbox!

The only way to significantly improve things across the spectrum is to do what you did, add one or more ratios allowing each ratio gap to be smaller! The cost benefit of this will not be appropriate for most members of this forum! 25 to 30% of the value of the bike! Not every rider will enjoy the extra gear changes demanded by the extra gears and will end up loping along in one or two of the ratios most of the time. And the chances are that the first gear ratio will still be too high in a product primarily aimed at racing, unless you are very specific about your needs, and select your primary and final drive ratios to suit!

On my Rickman with a 5 speed TTI, a high primary ratio but a low final ratio suited to small and tight French circuits, I still would not want to ride to the shops with the first gear fitted!
 
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