Respoking Rear tire (2010)
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Ron L
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Are any spokes broken? If not, the rim is probably bent. If you have some broken spokes, the rim may still be bent.
If the out of true isn't too bad, it can be pulled back by loosening and tightening the spokes. If the rim is bent, it is not likely you will pull it back with spokes. I have seen some steel rims straigtened with use of a hydraulic press, but it may need to be replaced.
If don't have experience in truing wheels, it might be best to take this to a professional. If there isn't a British bike mechanic in your area you could check with the local chopper shop or dirt bike shop.
If the out of true isn't too bad, it can be pulled back by loosening and tightening the spokes. If the rim is bent, it is not likely you will pull it back with spokes. I have seen some steel rims straigtened with use of a hydraulic press, but it may need to be replaced.
If don't have experience in truing wheels, it might be best to take this to a professional. If there isn't a British bike mechanic in your area you could check with the local chopper shop or dirt bike shop.
Ron L
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After re-reading your original post, if you put the bike on the center stand and spin the rear wheel, can you see the out of true?
When you say you see the wheel track "in and out", could it be the engine cradle moving on incorrectly adjusted isolastics?
When you say you see the wheel track "in and out", could it be the engine cradle moving on incorrectly adjusted isolastics?
DogT
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I respoked my front and rear wheels with new rims and SS spokes. It was a process, but not impossible. It was not that bad and I would do it again, plus, how do the people that are building your wheel know the true offset if they don't have it on the bike? It is not a secret, there is plenty of information out there to respoke your wheels correctly.
Dave
69S
Dave
69S
Greetings,
I have laced and trued many wheels, yes even my Commando, here's wheel truing 101.
First of all Norton wheels have an offset laced into them, but seeing that you are only doing a "touch up job"
you probaly won't be throwing your offset out of whack. You can do the job on the bike with tire in place, but it will be easier if you remove the wheel
first. Build yourself a little truing stand out of 2x4, make it so you can reinsert the axle or some other rod in order to be able to spin the wheel. Get yourself a
black "grease pencil", then give the wheel a spin and hold the grease pencil close to the side of the rim. The grease pencil will draw lines on the rim where the high
spots are. Tighten the spokes that will draw the high spot down (towards the other side), wipe the grease pencil mark from the rim, then repeat the process till you get it straight (note you may have to loosen the spokes on the high side if they are tight). Keep at it till you have approximately 1mm (0.040 inch) deflection which is perfectly acceptable on any street bike, good luck.
GB
I have laced and trued many wheels, yes even my Commando, here's wheel truing 101.
First of all Norton wheels have an offset laced into them, but seeing that you are only doing a "touch up job"
you probaly won't be throwing your offset out of whack. You can do the job on the bike with tire in place, but it will be easier if you remove the wheel
first. Build yourself a little truing stand out of 2x4, make it so you can reinsert the axle or some other rod in order to be able to spin the wheel. Get yourself a
black "grease pencil", then give the wheel a spin and hold the grease pencil close to the side of the rim. The grease pencil will draw lines on the rim where the high
spots are. Tighten the spokes that will draw the high spot down (towards the other side), wipe the grease pencil mark from the rim, then repeat the process till you get it straight (note you may have to loosen the spokes on the high side if they are tight). Keep at it till you have approximately 1mm (0.040 inch) deflection which is perfectly acceptable on any street bike, good luck.
GB
Seems to be spoke week huh George? I'd go with the above, I'm not patient like you. For the forty bucks it costs me for wheel tune up it saves way more that that on my nerves.
I once spent a couple days installing a Norton rim, good practice and all that but it does not cost out unless you are retired.
I once spent a couple days installing a Norton rim, good practice and all that but it does not cost out unless you are retired.
I just rebuilt my rear wheel with SS spokes and the only way I could tell if there was an issue with the rim was after i respoked it, put it on a wheel jig, and spun it a few times. I found a small flat spot in the rim where a pot hole must have done a little damage, but it was so slight that hopefully it wont matter. You might want to try to build a jig to adjust the spokes before doing a complete rebuild. Heres a few pics of the process.... took about 3 hours.
DogT
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Max,
Boy that is different from the way I did mine. I put all the spokes in the hub on one side and then into the rim, flipped it over and did the same on the other. Like you say it should take about 3 hours. Mine was within 3/8" on just installing new spokes, it took me longer to true the wheel than install the spokes. I think mine is well under 1 mm, but I had to pull it over after installing on the forks to center the wheel about 1 mm. I need to get the rear end together to do the rear one, but it is basically done. If you do a wheel spoking search, there is plenty of info out there. Take pictures before dis-assembly and make copious measurements, especially with the rim offset from the hub. You may have to bend the neck of some of the spokes to get them to easily fit from the hub into the rim.
Dave
69S
Boy that is different from the way I did mine. I put all the spokes in the hub on one side and then into the rim, flipped it over and did the same on the other. Like you say it should take about 3 hours. Mine was within 3/8" on just installing new spokes, it took me longer to true the wheel than install the spokes. I think mine is well under 1 mm, but I had to pull it over after installing on the forks to center the wheel about 1 mm. I need to get the rear end together to do the rear one, but it is basically done. If you do a wheel spoking search, there is plenty of info out there. Take pictures before dis-assembly and make copious measurements, especially with the rim offset from the hub. You may have to bend the neck of some of the spokes to get them to easily fit from the hub into the rim.
Dave
69S
Hi Dave,
Most common spoke wheels (Japanese bikes of the 70s) simply lace and true to the center of the hub. Some wheels, Norton front discbrake
wheels for instance have offset built into them. A small degree of offset can be adjusted in with the spokes, however, on the Norton a bigger offset is accomplished with different length spokes (the spokes on the disc side are shorter). Now if you are respoking to install stainless steel spokes you could simply lay the wheel on a flat surface and take a measurement from the flat surface to the edge of the rim. Then after the relace you adjust and true to the measurement you took. If on the other hand someone brings you the wheel in pieces your kinda stuck. However, the solution would be to go to the bike and lace and true to the center of the forks or swingarm.
GB
Most common spoke wheels (Japanese bikes of the 70s) simply lace and true to the center of the hub. Some wheels, Norton front discbrake
wheels for instance have offset built into them. A small degree of offset can be adjusted in with the spokes, however, on the Norton a bigger offset is accomplished with different length spokes (the spokes on the disc side are shorter). Now if you are respoking to install stainless steel spokes you could simply lay the wheel on a flat surface and take a measurement from the flat surface to the edge of the rim. Then after the relace you adjust and true to the measurement you took. If on the other hand someone brings you the wheel in pieces your kinda stuck. However, the solution would be to go to the bike and lace and true to the center of the forks or swingarm.
GB
Ron L
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DaveK said:
Since you have a MkIII, your rear wheel is not centered in the hub. The offset is important as you true. You want the center of the rim in the center of the swingarm or more importantly in line with the centerline of the front wheel, not in the center of the rear hub. Loosening the spokes on one side while tightening the spokes on the other will pull the rim to one side.
Also do not depend on the outer edge of the rim to true for concentricity or side-to-side. I always true to where the tire bead seats. I have seen steel rim flanges runout as much as 1/8 inch when the bead seat is true.
Also I have seen many steel rims (mostly Raedelli) that are so flat where the rim is welded that it was impossible to pull it concentric in that area.
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As long as we're discussing spokes, its also a good idea to occasionally check the spokes to make sure they're tight. The tighter the spoke, the higher the pitch when you 'plink' it. All the spokes should be about the same pitch.
I balance my wheels when I change tires, and check for true at the same time, as my set-up for balancing is the same as me set-up for truing, with the addition of a marking pencil.
I balance my wheels when I change tires, and check for true at the same time, as my set-up for balancing is the same as me set-up for truing, with the addition of a marking pencil.
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Dave,
The Mk3 rear wheel is considerably more complicated to lace than other Commando models.
Before you try re-spoking the rear wheel of your Mk3, be aware that there are 3 (as in THREE) different spoke types used on that wheel. The long spokes mount to the disk-side (RHS) hub, but the opposite hub uses two different short spokes, depending on whether the spokes arrive from the inner or outer side of the hub. These two spoke types differ in their head angle, which is pretty subtile to determine. Do NOT bend the spoke if it does not easily enter the rim; this condition occurs when you have the wrong spoke type inserted. If you order a spoke set from, say, Walridge, they will ship them bound into three bundles; it will be up to you to distinguish the two types of short spokes and where they go. Once you get past this small complication, the process is straightforwat, as long as you have measured the original wheel dish (the "offset") before you have disassembled the wheel, and can restore it. The longer spokes are laced in a 3-cross pattern, the shorter spokes in a 2-cross pattern.
If you have the time and aren't put off by what I've said, then, as a hobbyist, I recommend that you give it a try. The process is a thoughtful one, and is fun, but be prepared to spend most of an afternoon, and a few beers, on that rear wheel. Otherwise, pack it up and send it to Buchanan's or Walridge, who know Norton wheels very well.
Tuning the wheel involves both concentricity and transverse (wobble) adjustments. Remember that when you are making a transverse adjustment, you must tighten the spokes attached to the hub that is in the direction of the correction, AND at the same time loosen the spokes attached to the opposite hub; this approximately preserves concentricity. Conversely, when making a concentricity adjustment, tighten or loosen an even number of consecutive spokes together, as this approximately preserves the transverse adjustment.
The Mk3 rear wheel is considerably more complicated to lace than other Commando models.
Before you try re-spoking the rear wheel of your Mk3, be aware that there are 3 (as in THREE) different spoke types used on that wheel. The long spokes mount to the disk-side (RHS) hub, but the opposite hub uses two different short spokes, depending on whether the spokes arrive from the inner or outer side of the hub. These two spoke types differ in their head angle, which is pretty subtile to determine. Do NOT bend the spoke if it does not easily enter the rim; this condition occurs when you have the wrong spoke type inserted. If you order a spoke set from, say, Walridge, they will ship them bound into three bundles; it will be up to you to distinguish the two types of short spokes and where they go. Once you get past this small complication, the process is straightforwat, as long as you have measured the original wheel dish (the "offset") before you have disassembled the wheel, and can restore it. The longer spokes are laced in a 3-cross pattern, the shorter spokes in a 2-cross pattern.
If you have the time and aren't put off by what I've said, then, as a hobbyist, I recommend that you give it a try. The process is a thoughtful one, and is fun, but be prepared to spend most of an afternoon, and a few beers, on that rear wheel. Otherwise, pack it up and send it to Buchanan's or Walridge, who know Norton wheels very well.
Tuning the wheel involves both concentricity and transverse (wobble) adjustments. Remember that when you are making a transverse adjustment, you must tighten the spokes attached to the hub that is in the direction of the correction, AND at the same time loosen the spokes attached to the opposite hub; this approximately preserves concentricity. Conversely, when making a concentricity adjustment, tighten or loosen an even number of consecutive spokes together, as this approximately preserves the transverse adjustment.
DogT
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My drum hub types were rather easy to do because the spokes are all the same. I did have trouble with the rear wheel getting the spokes into the rim because the spoke head angle was wrong. I thought Mike had sent me the wrong spokes and he told me to just bend the head a bit more to get them to go in the rim easily. He said bending the head is a rather common thing to do when respoking. Have I messed up?
Dave
69S
Dave
69S
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