Rebuild or Replace Lockheed Brakes

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hobot said:
It was to spread more heat that both wide tires and dual disc brake developed not over all better traction or short stopping than narrow tire or single disc, just they melt sooner and then fade in function, so can get away with extremes if spaced apart to cool down enough before next heating applied. btw best way to break in brakes is to immediately start hard pull downs to beyond maxium expected real life heat but not let the tire lock up to weld/gall surfaces. Sleeve 12 mm, larger thinner band rotor with multi small pad caliper and better leverage handle can't be beat just not Norton and rather expensive. Unless over heating issue then an extra rotor just adds more spun and unsprung mass to delay ya but looks better symmetric.

For some reason, I like the agricultural look of the Lockheed slave cylinder and hope to keep it, and it would seem that the rotor is the Achilles heel in the system (once the M/C is sleeved).
Rebuild or Replace Lockheed Brakes

I know the drilled stock rotors add a lot of sex appeal, but how much do they help with heat rejection? Have any of you performed a definitive before-and-after, and can truly say that it helps ward off heat fade in a large way? It has to help, but how much?

Nathan
 
Onder said:
I think it is all covered . It matters how hard you drive, where you drive and how much weight is atop the bike.
For me the sleeved down master, ground disc and SS hoses have made a nice improvement.
But I weigh little, keep to the speed limits and generally don't hot dog.
If you go fast, push hard in the hills and are up a few pounds on me, then look toward a modern front system.

You've got it about right. If there were only two switchbacks on the Duffy Lake road instead of three, or if we had been travelling at moderate speeds for the road, the standard brake would have been fine.

Glen
 
Madass 40 (Don Pender)'s upgraded brake is a no brainer if you can stump up the readies. It all fits beautifully and the Tokiko calliper, disc, and master cylinder will banish any braking worries for ever.
 
Nater_Potater said:
hobot said:
It was to spread more heat that both wide tires and dual disc brake developed not over all better traction or short stopping than narrow tire or single disc, just they melt sooner and then fade in function, so can get away with extremes if spaced apart to cool down enough before next heating applied. btw best way to break in brakes is to immediately start hard pull downs to beyond maxium expected real life heat but not let the tire lock up to weld/gall surfaces. Sleeve 12 mm, larger thinner band rotor with multi small pad caliper and better leverage handle can't be beat just not Norton and rather expensive. Unless over heating issue then an extra rotor just adds more spun and unsprung mass to delay ya but looks better symmetric.

For some reason, I like the agricultural look of the Lockheed slave cylinder and hope to keep it, and it would seem that the rotor is the Achilles heel in the system (once the M/C is sleeved).
Rebuild or Replace Lockheed Brakes

I know the drilled stock rotors add a lot of sex appeal, but how much do they help with heat rejection? Have any of you performed a definitive before-and-after, and can truly say that it helps ward off heat fade in a large way? It has to help, but how much?

Nathan

Well, with the chrome ground off I can report that braking action is much improved but still sucks. I'm going to have the MC sleeved to 13mm and I expect an improvement.

As for the drilling and lightening, well, it sure looks better but I doubt it helps much. I like the look and am glad I had it done.
 
Don't write off even a little less spun mass reduction help in stopping wheel rotation which can only then slow the cycle. The lighter the spun mass the faster the felt effort is so a few tire rotations shorter than might other wise. Every little bit helps if going for max efficiency though harder to tell if also changing everything else at once. Squeal em good ya hear. Dang issue with ABS on loose stuff is its great till a half of car or full bike length beyond what actual lock up would of stopped short at.
 
My first winter project before I get into my Alton starter installation, is a rear disc for my '74. I've already put a different front on as well. Of course I had to fab up the rotor carriers and adapters for the discs. I lifted the idea of using a slightly modified Ducati 900SS rear caliper carrier/mount from another member of this forum a few months ago looking for ideas. Thanks and a shout out to him for this. Gafler rotor and Brembo caliper on front, and putting a '75 swingarm and hub with a Gafler rotor and Brembo caliper on the rear. I've fabbed a bracket for the BMW K100 Brembo rear master cylinder and stuff so I can use the existing left foot pedal via cable. Here are some pics:
Rebuild or Replace Lockheed Brakes

Rebuild or Replace Lockheed Brakes

Rebuild or Replace Lockheed Brakes

Rebuild or Replace Lockheed Brakes

Rebuild or Replace Lockheed Brakes

Rebuild or Replace Lockheed Brakes


JD
 
worntorn said:
The stock brake on my 1975 Commando was good for one hard stop. It was adequate until I took the bike into the mountains. Riding hard in the mountains it failed completely by overheating on a downhill section requiring three hard pulldowns from about 70 MPH to 20mph(switchbacks). A 1948 Vincent that I was attempting to keep up with had no braking issues in the same spot the Norton brake gave up. I very nearly ran into the back of him. The other choice was an 800 foot drop.
The Norton was fitted with the "right" pads from Vintage brake. The fellow at Vintage brake promised that the Ferodo pads would make the brake "scary powerful" It was scary all right, but not because of it's power!

People may tell you that reducing the Master cylinder size will cure the Commando disc, but all that does is make the brake lever easier to squeeze. It does nothing for the overheating problem, which is due to the tiny pad size of the stock brake.
So if you are content with a front brake that underperforms a motorcycle built in 1948, keep the stock brake. If you want better, look at either the Madass single 320 mm disc six pot (wonderful brake) or the CNW Brembo, also said to be excellent according to reports here.

Glen

I can't dispute your experiences - I'm not surprised you don't rate the stock brake!
However, I'd say that re-sleeving the M/C means the brake applications are of a much shorter duration and also turn the brake from gripping a plank to a true brake feel. The difference really is massive.
I've never ridden so hard as to overheat my brakes, so I can't make a comparison, but all the modified brakes I've used will readily squeal the front tyre, and in a controlled way, rather than the original 'keep squeezing until it responds' manner. I'm confident they'll perform an emergency stop just fine.
Keeping things in perspective, I'd rate the modified Norton brake above any contemporary Jap offering. The Brembos on my Ducatis are superior, but they're supposed to be!

On my PR Replica I'm using a pair of Lockheed racing calipers with the adjustable Master Cylinder on RGM floating discs together with Andover-Norton Production Racer fork sliders, so I don't expect any issues, and it keeps it looking period-ish. Expensive, and probably overkill, but it's being built as a track bike.

All the modern brakes are undoubtedly vastly superior to the stock setup, but it really depends on the use it's going to get - horses for courses, etc.
 
I've got a highly modified 73 Commando and this is what I did when I was rebuilding my bike. I cleaned and rebuilt my stock caliper. Then I purchased a Venhill braided brake line. Since the bike is not stock I discarded the front brake master cylinder and switch cluster and installed an inexpensive 12.7 mm Magura master cylinder. I had my original front disc resurfaced.....the brakes work beautifully. If you can go non stock ,this set up gets the job done.
 
B+Bogus said:
worntorn said:
I can't dispute your experiences - I'm not surprised you don't rate the stock brake!
However, I'd say that re-sleeving the M/C means the brake applications are of a much shorter duration and also turn the brake from gripping a plank to a true brake feel. The difference really is massive.
I've never ridden so hard as to overheat my brakes, so I can't make a comparison, but all the modified brakes I've used will readily squeal the front tyre, and in a controlled way, rather than the original 'keep squeezing until it responds' manner. I'm confident they'll perform an emergency stop just fine.
Keeping things in perspective, I'd rate the modified Norton brake above any contemporary Jap offering. The Brembos on my Ducatis are superior, but they're supposed to be!

On my PR Replica I'm using a pair of Lockheed racing calipers with the adjustable Master Cylinder on RGM floating discs together with Andover-Norton Production Racer fork sliders, so I don't expect any issues, and it keeps it looking period-ish. Expensive, and probably overkill, but it's being built as a track bike.

All the modern brakes are undoubtedly vastly superior to the stock setup, but it really depends on the use it's going to get - horses for courses, etc.

I'm pretty sure that any stock caliper and disc setup will overheat if pushed really hard, no matter what M/C is on there. Testing is easy, just run up to 70 MPH or so then do a full hard stop, back to 70 and repeat. By the second stop some fading will likely happen, by the third I think the brake will be gone.
Once you have that heart in the throat moment where the corner is coming up, the sheer drop is dead ahead, then pull the brake lever hard but nothing happens, all faith in that system is gone.
I enjoy riding the bike hard, so it needs a proper brake. The Madass brake is available for about the same cost as a tank respray.
I have given it a good tryout and it has not faltered.
It seems there are several other good solutions as well. I would go for anything that increases that tiny pad area of the stock brake. A bigger disc with better cooling is also helpful.
The stock rear disc is just right as it is, don't want to overpower that one. Modern sportbikes have small rear brakes for that reason.
 
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