Rant: Bikes For sale, No Title. Why so many ?

speirmoor

speirmoor

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How come there are so many bikes for sale without titles in the USA? Its unheard of anywhere else. The Vermont loophole is closed so now its even harder to get bikes registered. Bills of sale wont do it anymore in NY. I know its different in every state so maybe it affects everyone differently.
 
speirmoor said:
How come there are so many bikes for sale without titles in the USA? Its unheard of anywhere else. The Vermont loophole is closed so now its even harder to get bikes registered. Bills of sale wont do it anymore in NY. I know its different in every state so maybe it affects everyone differently.
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Cuz reasons.

Deaths
Lost
Misplaced
Not properly transferred
Abandoned bike years ago (very common)
Title not required in some States now
Title not required in some States then
Junk bikes sold for parts, now have value
Gifted bikes
Rebuilt
Repaired
Altered numbers
A sketchy past, stolen, or a recovered theft before the computer age.
A significant percentage of the populace are not "enthusiasts".
So many people just "go to the dealer, they put tags on it" unaware of how any of this stuff works. Then, when they have an old bike, utterly clueless.

On & on
 
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I have been around bikes and dealerships pretty much all my life. I have bought and sold my share of bike and I have rebuilt quite a few as well. It has always amazed me that most owners have a very cavalier attitude to their bike's paper work. They will say stupid things like "you can get a duplicate title" (not unless you are the original owner.) Or they will say "you can get a bonded title." You can get a bonded title here in Texas. It will cost around $100 for the bond, $50 for the title transfer fee but they will assess sales tax on your purchase which they will value at $6000. You will pay $495 in sales tax on that pile of parts you just bought. The latest thing is the "ruined instrument." This is where three or four people have signed the back of the title thinking that they have somehow transferred the title doing this. I have taken to asking sellers to show me the back of the title due to this unfortunate turn of events. People in the US are ignorant, lazy or both. They are clueless as to how tags, taxes and governments work and don't care. It's getting worse.
 
^^^^ Having seen lots of episodes of Judge Judy on TV I reckon you are spot on, not a good look though :rolleyes:
 
Grandad said:
^^^^ Having seen lots of episodes of Judge Judy on TV I reckon you are spot on, not a good look though :rolleyes:
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I don't know about schools in the UK but here in the US they can barely teach students how to read much less the finer points of governemnt processes, titles and taxes. It's almost like students demand to be stupid. It still puzzles me how a person can own an asset and not take care of the paperwork that makes it legally theirs?

Actually I do know how most of these deals happen. The bike gets wrecked, rashed or doesn't run. It's gets sold on and the signed title languishes while the new owner tries to get it running or rides it until the registration runs out. The new owner either doesn't have the money to take care of the title transfer or figures it's not worth it. These bikes are a dime a dozen usually small displacement Japanese sport bikes. I have sworn off title work unless I find something really worth my time.
 
Theres also title jumping. I dont know how many bikes I've bought from a different person than the one thats named on the title. They save on the tax but its also illegal. Thats maybe a failure of the system. In their defense they say they'd need to pay insurance on it to get it registered in their name. Why should they when their motivation is profit.
No title at one time was a haggling strategy as It would cost me money to get a machine legit and would be worth it for a rare one.
 
Big_Jim59 said:
I have been around bikes and dealerships pretty much all my life. I have bought and sold my share of bike and I have rebuilt quite a few as well. It has always amazed me that most owners have a very cavalier attitude to their bike's paper work. They will say stupid things like "you can get a duplicate title" (not unless you are the original owner.) Or they will say "you can get a bonded title." You can get a bonded title here in Texas. It will cost around $100 for the bond, $50 for the title transfer fee but they will assess sales tax on your purchase which they will value at $6000. You will pay $495 in sales tax on that pile of parts you just bought. The latest thing is the "ruined instrument." This is where three or four people have signed the back of the title thinking that they have somehow transferred the title doing this. I have taken to asking sellers to show me the back of the title due to this unfortunate turn of events. People in the US are ignorant, lazy or both. They are clueless as to how tags, taxes and governments work and don't care. It's getting worse.
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A while back I bought out a dying man's collection. It included three titled bikes. One was a 70% completed Combat. He bought it in 2000 and had the title from the original owner, signed. He never had it titled and his info was not on the title. I could deal with that, no problem. Before sending me the title, he filled in his info as the buyer! Now I was screwed. I sent it back to him to title it and send me the new title. Rather than do that, he took it to some Govt office to "fix it". They started working with the state where it have been before - all clueless people including him. A few months in, he died. The bike is being parted out to cover my loss. It was matching numbers :mad:
 
If bike has no title, Pennsylvania will accept a bill of sale from Maine and Florida resident. I haven't tried it. I think before tryimg you might be safer if you had a friendly police officer run the numbers. If you were clear there may be a sympathic member to help
 
Part of the bonded title process in Texas involves presenting the bike to a local/regional LE office where they visually verify the serial numbers and run them thru the 50-State stolen vehicle database. As was already mentioned the biggest deal is $150 or so for the bond. Piece of cake.
 
mean gene said:
If bike has no title, Pennsylvania will accept a bill of sale from Maine and Florida resident. I haven't tried it. I think before tryimg you might be safer if you had a friendly police officer run the numbers. If you were clear there may be a sympathic member to help
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A few years ago, I wanted a Trident from Florida - it was only $2000 but had no title. I told the guy it was worthless to me without a title. He said to tell the DMV it came from Georgia and they didn't title them at the time. I told him that would absolutely not work in Virginia and that I would give him $2100 if he got a title. The next day he had a Florida title. The only restriction was a fine-print note in the bottom margin that it could not be re-titled in Florida for 30 days. It was no problem to get a Virgina title right away with Florida title.

However, states are tightening all that, so I have no idea if it still works in Florida.
 
grandpaul said:
Part of the bonded title process in Texas involves presenting the bike to a local/regional LE office where they visually verify the serial numbers and run them thru the 50-State stolen vehicle database. As was already mentioned the biggest deal is $150 or so for the bond. Piece of cake.
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I only had to do the inspection because my Norton came from Colorado. Don't forget the sales tax of 8.25% on $6000 valuation.
 
"The Vermont loophole is closed so now its even harder to get bikes registered."



"I dont know how many bikes I've bought from a different person than the one thats named on the title. They save on the tax but its also illegal. Thats maybe a failure of the system. "


I would offer that Vermont reg was never a loophole. Their laws.

The title being in a previous owner's name happens in the old vehicle community, because the vehicle are traded like HotWheels cars. NOT a daily driver.

NEITHER of the two scenarios are intended to evade taxes, but rather, to facilitate getting the car/bike in the hands of someone who wants it, and will get it back on the road.

The interwebs allowed for bazillions of people reading about it. Then some holier-than-thou morality thought policing bunch were "triggered" because, well, that's what they do.


JMWO
 
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Even if you are successful in obtaining a Bonded Title in NY
"After 3 years of having BONDED stamped on your vehicle title, the bonded title brand will dissipate and you will have a clean New York title in your name"
Might be worth it if it was a rare or valuable machine.
Is this the same in other States?
 
speirmoor said:
Even if you are successful in obtaining a Bonded Title in NY
"After 3 years of having BONDED stamped on your vehicle title, the bonded title brand will dissipate and you will have a clean New York title in your name"
Might be worth it if it was a rare or valuable machine.
Is this the same in other States?
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Virginia doesn't even have the bonded title concept. I think the Carolinas are the same. The only title you can get without a title is reconstructed and then you have a new bike and must pass all safety and emissions inspections, and the State assigns a VIN.
 
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