Question on making a 74 .. 850cc into a left foot shift

L.A.B. said:

Upgrading the 850 Mk3 starter, however, is not the subject of this thread.

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This thread is more than on off topic.
My favorite this week is the guy asking specifically about the Continental 120/90/18 rear radial tyre/tire and the last reply says he and any others using that size are retards.
A classic attack but not as we know it.

Maybe he meant to say that he uses retreads?

worntorn said:

Maybe he meant to say that he uses retreads?

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I like your thinking that will be it.

The big problem is so many new to Norton's have always had a liking for them but when they do get one it takes them a long time to understand the difference to what they owned or been use to riding, you can't just jump on a kick start on a Norton and kick it like any other kick start bike you have to learn how to kick a Norton by just not kicking it, there is a art in kicking a Norton to life, once mastered they are easy and usually a one kick to fire up, then there is the right 1 up 3 down shift but if you ride the bike it usually only takes a short time to master it and I will admit I nearly crashed my Norton just a 100 mtrs from buying it new from the show room door because I jumped on the gear leaver instead of the brake when a bus stopped in front of me, that was a close call and took it easy for a week or two after just getting use to the changes I was use to, I was 17 when I brought my new Norton and skinny as a rake but it did take some time to master the kicking.
When I bought my new Norton back in 76 I bought the last old stock 74 Commando it was way cheaper than the M111 and was told by the salesman the M111 electric start was more a kick start helper, they were a lazy electric starter, but they were easy to start when using electric/kicker at the same time, but I had no regrets in my decision to buy a kick start Norton as I still own it but its nothing like when I bought it new.
So my advice is learn to kick and get use to the gear change as really the right shift gear change is one of the best gear change and smoothness of all my bikes, even my modern Triumph isn't as smooth as my Norton.

Ashley

worntorn said:

Maybe he meant to say that he uses retreads?

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I once signed off a work email with Retards, instead of Regards. We did laugh about it, ....a few years later!

If you're particularly fond of the bike and want to keep it, rather than sell it and buy a Mk3 I think what you're proposing is certainly do-able. If you fitted a Colorado Norton Works electric start you would also be fitting a belt drive (comes as part of the electric starter it) which means the gearbox then doesn't need to move to adjust a primary chain, so a crossover shaft becomes fairly straightforward to do. You would need to use MK3 inner and outer gearbox cases and the crossover shaft, and machine a hole in your inner and outer primary covers, but I can't see any of that being all that difficult. The rear brake is cable operated, so you'd only need to find or fabricate a suitable right side brake pedal and use a longer cable. Again I wouldn't think it was that hard to do. Compared to some of the projects undertaken by others on this site (e.g. mono shock and single sided swingarm conversions etc) I'd say what you're proposing would rank as "medium difficulty".

bsaboss said:

If you're particularly fond of the bike and want to keep it, rather than sell it and buy a Mk3 I think what you're proposing is certainly do-able. If you fitted a Colorado Norton Works electric start you would also be fitting a belt drive (comes as part of the electric starter it) which means the gearbox then doesn't need to move to adjust a primary chain, so a crossover shaft becomes fairly straightforward to do. You would need to use MK3 inner and outer gearbox cases and the crossover shaft, and machine a hole in your inner and outer primary covers, but I can't see any of that being all that difficult. The rear brake is cable operated, so you'd only need to find or fabricate a suitable right side brake pedal and use a longer cable. Again I wouldn't think it was that hard to do. Compared to some of the projects undertaken by others on this site (e.g. mono shock and single sided swingarm conversions etc) I'd say what you're proposing would rank as "medium difficulty".

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I don't get where by fitting a cNw electric start kit with a belt drive eliminates the need to move the gearbox to adjust a primary chain.
Huh? Am I missing something? Adjusting the tension in my cNw belt drive REQUIRES moving the gearbox. I know I'm old, but......

bsaboss said:

If you're particularly fond of the bike and want to keep it,

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The OP hasn't actually said if he owns this "74 Commando" or not.

bsaboss said:

If you fitted a Colorado Norton Works electric start you would also be fitting a belt drive (comes as part of the electric starter it) which means the gearbox then doesn't need to move to adjust a primary chain, so a crossover shaft becomes fairly straightforward to do. You would need to use MK3 inner and outer gearbox cases and the crossover shaft, and machine a hole in your inner and outer primary covers, but I can't see any of that being all that difficult.

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Not quite that straightforward.
As well as the Mk3 inner and outer gearbox covers and ratchet mechanism, the gearbox case quadrant boss needs machining down and Mk3 quadrant fitted or Mk3 gearbox case fitted to provide clearance for the cross-shaft.

The cross-shaft would have to pass through the LH cradle plate and inner cover where the inner cover mounting stud is, so that would have to be repositioned, not just on the cradle but also the inner cover.

The cross-shaft would need a boss and bush in the outer case and a similar boss and bush for the pedal shaft as the two shafts are connected by gears inside the outer case (reversing the gearchange operation)...

Edit: Outer primary locations for the cross-shaft (item 2) and gear pedal shaft (4) in the standard Mk3 cover.


...and the cross-shaft is not square to the case joint but crosses from right to left at a slight angle so the bushes in the outer case must also be angled and this is assuming the cross-shaft doesn't clash with any part of the (cNw?, Alton?) electric starter drive.

Well certainly a lot of INFO..Thanks for all the replies . It was more a curiosity question

lazyeye6 said:

I don't get where by fitting a cNw electric start kit with a belt drive eliminates the need to move the gearbox to adjust a primary chain.
Huh? Am I missing something? Adjusting the tension in my cNw belt drive REQUIRES moving the gearbox. I know I'm old, but.....

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The belts do not need adjusting in use. So, provided care is taken in setting up, it should never need adjusting, therefore if the gearbox never needs moving, the crossover shaft through the primary case is doable.

Being belt drive also means the primary is dry, so no need to worry about oil leaks from there with the fabricating and machining etc.

Personally, I still rate this as a big job for an average guy, ‘medium difficulty‘ applies to those with own machine shops and a lot of experience IMHO.

I have LH shift first down, LH shift first up, RH shift first up and RH sift first down bikes. Also use different patterns on the same day racing. Very rarely misshift.
No car problem with shift stick on the left when in Australia. But I have problem with wipers and indicators on the (for me) wrong side. Feels silly when wipers goes on when turning.

Mike40M said:

I have LH shift first down, LH shift first up, RH shift first up and RH sift first down bikes. Also use different patterns on the same day racing. Very rarely misshift.
No car problem with shift stick on the left when in Australia. But I have problem with wipers and indicators on the (for me) wrong side. Feels silly when wipers goes on when turning.

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In NZ, cars have their wipers and indicators on different side stalks even with all RHD cars. my wife's Ford Ranger has the turn signals on the RH stalk, as des my daughter's Toyota. My Merc has them on the LH. Very irritating.

Driving on different sides of the road or shifting on the R with the Norton or the L with the Duc? No problem.

Go figure.

Hi all,
I get the feeling that a degree of subliminal criticism has been directed at the chap for wanting to convert the bike to LH change with rather rhetorical questions such as ’why would you want to do that?’.
Im not sure if this is in the spirit of the forum.
Contributors to this forum are a broad church from those who judge a bike on almost fanatical originality to those like myself who make small sympathetic changes to improve the bike where possible but largely try keep it as purchased, to those who modify their bikes radically in the quest of performance not available when new. We are all Norton enthusiasts and we all contribute to the continuation of the marque.
With this in mind, the question of changing sides of the controls is a totally valid one although I believe it to be more trouble than it’s worth. Personally I would advise seeking out the a really good Mk3.
As I’m constantly on a bike as a farmer (TTR250) mustering stock in difficult terrain and my other road bikes (T140 & T160) are LH change, I would probably swap the Norton over it if it was straight forward. If I did so I wouldn’t feel inadequate or less of a man for doing so. I would consider it a convenient standardisation.
I chose a Mk2 because I valued the clean bare lines of the pre-electric start model and the change is not a big deal. My riding rarely has the bike out of top gear, so gear changes are kept to a minimum.
The bike almost always starts first kick but if starting became an issue due to health problems I would have no qualms about fitting an electric start (or swapping for a Mk3).
So I guess the nub my post is to suggest that we not be judgemental or question the philosophy of people who want to make modifications that we wouldn’t consider but rather, give them fair, free and frank advice.
regards
Alan

LAB's detailed post suggests the left foot shift MK3 GB with shaft through primary would need to clear an e-leg setup. Does the CNW (or any other aftermarket) E-leg fit a MK3 to replace the oem gubbins or is it strictly for pre-Norton e-leggers?

Only for pre-Mk3.

Alan L said:

Hi all,
I get the feeling that a degree of subliminal criticism has been directed at the chap for wanting to convert the bike to LH change with rather rhetorical questions such as ’why would you want to do that?’.
Im not sure if this is in the spirit of the forum.
regards
Alan

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Alan
I have reviewed the responses and can't find any with the thrust "why would you want to do that?"
A number suggest that it would be more practical to sell and buy a Mk3.
There is substantial discussion about electric boots.
Even some covering the complexities of fitting a shift-shaft(s) over to the left.
So... other than some forum members giving their view (the point of the forum?) that this will be a technical obstacle not to be underestimated, I can't see the negativity you apparently perceive.
Cheers

gortnipper said:

In NZ, cars have their wipers and indicators on different side stalks even with all RHD cars. my wife's Ford Ranger has the turn signals on the RH stalk, as des my daughter's Toyota. My Merc has them on the LH. Very irritating.

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When I fly to Brisbane and drive my brother-in-law's Volvo it is not unusual for me to activate the wipers instead of indicating. Grrr!

When someone toots at me for not indicating, my shouted response is "What's wrong with you? Didn't you see my bloody wipers?"

Alan L said:

I get the feeling that a degree of subliminal criticism has been directed at the chap for wanting to convert the bike to LH change with rather rhetorical questions such as ’why would you want to do that?’.
Im not sure if this is in the spirit of the forum.


So I guess the nub my post is to suggest that we not be judgemental or question the philosophy of people who want to make modifications that we wouldn’t consider but rather, give them fair, free and frank advice.

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On the contrary, I believe sound advice has been given that attempting to do so would be anything but straightforward especially with the unknown quantity of an expensive aftermarket electric starter kit thrown in, the primary cases of which would certainly require modification for a cross-shaft even if it would be possible to fit the Mk3 cross-shaft parts so any comments dissuading the OP from attempting to do so, is entirely justified in my opinion especially as there doesn't seem to be an actual bike to begin with or any suggestion of a physical disability but as the OP said the question was simply one of "curiosity" in which case any hints that it's not a practical proposition are entirely justified in my opinion.

Alan L said:

As I’m constantly on a bike as a farmer (TTR250) mustering stock in difficult terrain and my other road bikes (T140 & T160) are LH change, I would probably swap the Norton over it if it was straight forward. If I did so I wouldn’t feel inadequate or less of a man for doing so. I would consider it a convenient standardisation.

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If straightforward, however, you also appear to agree the level of difficulty (and expense) would make it impractical and haven't suggested an alternative solution.
There's been no hint of inadequacy or anyone would become "less of a man" that I'm aware of, only that it's perhaps not the best of ideas.
As a LH gearchange T140 and T160 owner myself (as well as a Mk3 owner), although the T140 cross-shaft is a reasonably simple affair, the T160's cross-shaft mechanism certainly isn't and would be far from a simple modification, for instance, to convert a T150 to LH gearchange using a cross-shaft.

#montypython 'glad I didn't mention the fork'



Totally agree regarding the T160 crossover arrangement. Amazing that it works as well as it does!

B+Bogus said:

#montypython 'glad I didn't mention the fork'



Totally agree regarding the T160 crossover arrangement. Amazing that it works as well as it does!

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so... given that it's too late to sack the entire Norton development and production staff (twice over!) for this "unforgivable" oversight, what do you suggest?