Question about Brexit

With the current Australian government, the contents of our free trade agreements are a closely guarded secret. Do ordinary British people know what is in their country's agreements with the EU ?
 
acotrel said:
I worked as a middle manager / scientist in heavy engineering industries for more than 40 years. I sometimes came up against the unions. However I would trust any union guy long before I would trust any conservative politician. When a union guy is corrupt, he has to answer to his mates. If a conservative politician is corrupt, that is just part of ' THE JOKE '. The system runs on bullshit and once you acknowledge that fact, you will never be disappointed, because your expectations are not so high. Never be a BELIEVER !
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I don't know what the unions are like in your part of the world, but over here they exist solely to suck dues out of the paycheck of everyone foolish or unfortunate enough to belong to one. Most have long since moved beyond the altruistic notion of doing what's best for their rank and file workers and are now concentrated on electing politicians that will further union membership so they can suck ever more dues money from them. I witnessed firsthand what they did to Boeing Helicopters in Philly in the late 60' s and 70's. Between the unions policy of not being able to transfer into another job classification, and affirmative action hiring, what had once been a stable workforce with decent pay and benefits was turned into a revolving door of employment and layoffs.
Sorry for the off topic rant, I'll quit before I get on to public sector unions.
 
Mike,
It is the same here - the majority of unions no longer have any power to affect working conditions/pay/workers rights etc as these are usually decided by committees or panels. Most people join unions for the insurance and public liability as independent insurance does not usually exist in that format for individual workers.

Overall result has been stagnant pay rates, increased workload, longer hours (not always paid) to cope with the work and a lot more scrutiny from your employer and most insidious of all zero hours contracts!
 
Eljahara said:
Overall result has been stagnant pay rates, increased workload, longer hours (not always paid) to cope with the work and a lot more scrutiny from your employer
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Got any evidence for any of that?

For myself, and just about everyone I know, I earn more than my father did, who earned way more than his father did. And the fact we all spend so much of that extra money on leisure pursuits doesn’t support the fact we’re all working longer hours either.

And considering that my Grandfather picked coal from the face, in narrow seems, with a hand held pick, we ain’t working harder either.

Yes, I agree, it is very wrong that zero hours contracts are forced on those that don’t want them and this should be stopped. But that doesn’t make zero hours contract bad per se, the flexibility they offer suits MANY people in today’s world.
 
And the fact we all spend so much of that extra money on leisure pursuits doesn’t support the fact we’re all working longer hours either.



Not sure about this being a fact Eddie
Do you mean us in our age group or young people starting out with a huge mortgage?
 
According to the during the last election of the labour party manifesto of which Mr. Corbyn was the leader, it clearly stated that it would abide by the referendum to get Britain out of the E.U. . . . . . politicians are very good at kicking the can down the road as they have squandered their time in this parliament for the last 3 years. On the forthcoming Dec 12 election about 50 MPs will not be standing for re-election- let’s hope that the next lot are so much better that the last lot of rabble ., . .
 
Fast Eddie said:
I think he’s referring to the statues of Jefferson Davis, Robert E Lee etc that were removed a few years ago.

Important people of their time who fought for what they believed in. Lee in particular was famously progressive about slavery and only took up arms against the Union in defence of his home state.

Along with the likes of ‘Stonewall’ Jackson, Lee was even admired by many in the North for their abilities and bravery.

But they were made pariah’s by their modern day opponents and judged through a lens of modern day morals, and their statues deemed undesirable and requiring removal from public display.

A scandal IMHO.
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Tell that to the 20 million black southerners who are reminded daily of a system (and the men who fought for it) that profited from the death, rape and enslavement of their families for CENTURIES.

Those men fought to undermine the principles on which this country was founded. They don't deserve statues.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Got any evidence for any of that?
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Pay rises for many have been capped at 1% or less over the last 8 years (austerity, particularly for those in the public sector) - yes we earn more than our parents/grandparents but prices are higher - they certainly would not have paid £1.50 for a loaf or around £3.50 for a pint of beer. Yes I have more disposable income as I am slightly older but younger people are finding it tougher than we did/are, as a demographic we are a bit skewed on here.
Your points are valid but not everyone is experiencing things in the way we are - nurses using food banks, parents going without food to ensure their children eat; and these are people in work.
 
Not trying to say every one has got it easy. And yes, house prices HURT, especially those starting out.

I just don’t buy into this ‘we’re all getting poorer, and working harder cos the Unions aren’t helping us anymore’ line.

If you look at the long term trend, whilst there are always dips, the fact is people are getting wealthier.

Unions that do genuinely help their members by focusing on LONG TERM well-being understand that the company which employs them has to prosper first in order to provide said well-being, a basic fact that was sadly lost to some unions in the recent past.

Unions who seek regime change are completely out of order IMHO. That is what the ballot box is for. Their reason for existence is looking after their members.
 
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Arthur scargill? drew a salary whilst the miners were on a wage. guess who bought a new Jag during the miners strike.
 
you any idea how the blacks were captured and sold? mostly by warring villagers who realised there was more to gain by selling to "whitey" than beheading and killing! get over it snowflake. it's history. not how we are now.
 
freddie1105 said:
you any idea how the blacks were captured and sold? mostly by warring villagers who realised there was more to gain by selling to "whitey" than beheading and killing! get over it snowflake. it's history. not how we are now.
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Ok boomer. :p:p:p:p
 
Baby Boomer, basically I'm dismissing your viewpoint because you are old and your world view is outdated/misinformed.


Kind of like you calling me a snowflake. Didn't know you guys got FOX News across the pond.
 
If you don't believe that unions are a legitimate expression of industrial democracy, you must believe in the alternative - the staff suggestion scheme and the goodwill of your employer ? In Australia, our government is into 'trickle-down economics - what a joke that is ? Tax-breaks for the wealthy in the hope that they will pass on their gains to their workers. At the same time their kid's private schools are highly subsidised, so the system continues to produce incompetent leaders.
The alternative to austerity measures is Keynesian economics. But our conservatives use the same approach to economics whether the economy is bull or bear. If a Keynesian approach to dealing with the bear economy which came out of the GFC did not work, would we be much worse off ?
 
About this stuff about each generation being better off than the previous one. - I was a kid when women went to work after WW2. All we really gained was a second motor car and large flat screen TVs. Other than that, our mothers went to work and achieved nothing, but improving the lot of the top end of town.
 
NPeteN said:
Baby Boomer, basically I'm dismissing your viewpoint because you are old and your world view is outdated/misinformed.


Kind of like you calling me a snowflake. Didn't know you guys got FOX News across the pond.
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or maybe I have life experiences and contrary to popular belief. kids aren't born all knowing
 
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