Question about Brexit

trident sam said:

At least if we are out of the EU, when I get fed up of the Torys screwing me I can vote someone else in to screw me instead.
I absolutely resent and always have done, having laws forced on us by failed states, which Germany and France are, as well as the rest of Europe.(Russia excepted)

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The more things change, the more they stay the same. There is always the same question to be asked - 'Qui Bono - who benefits ?'. If you are being indoctrinated and manipulated and are aware of the process, it cannot work successfully.

Well I can't say much about anything from where I sit because we've got people that believe they are above the law and free to only obey the ones they agree with. As I look at what's going on as the country is literally being looted by politicians I begin to wonder if …….

Fast Eddie said:

So, you don’t see any irony in arguing for Scottish independence from the United Kingdom AND simultaneously ceding sovereignty to the EU...?

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the majority of us jocks voted to stay in the EU
as for sovereignty we had a queen a while back in history but you lot chopped her head off
couldnt even do that properly ha ha

I don’t think you answered my question.

The SNP agenda is Scottish independence... and staying in the EU.

My point is that if that happened and Scotland left the U.K. (within which it is pretty much an equal partner these days) and joined the EU, it would be some a very small fish in a very big pond and will have to do exactly what the big fish say.

Thats not independence from anything according to my understanding of the word.

desmo said:

the majority of us jocks voted to stay in the EU
as for sovereignty we had a queen a while back in history but you lot chopped her head off
couldnt even do that properly ha ha

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The problem is that we voted on the EU as a United Kingdom, the only benefit to highlighting how various regions voted is to continue to push division and discord.
By the logic of “we voted to remain” we could say that Scotland has not voted for any UK government for quite a while so they don’t need to accept the result of any GE. Transfer that to specific regions of the UK and no government would ever be accepted - each government in the UK only receives about 35% of the vote so it is no wonder there is always such unhappiness with any government of any persuasion.
Cameron’s mistake was not defining a winning margin - 75% would have done - but the current situation is a joke and serves neither side. 3 years later and we are still fighting the referendum of 2016.
Whichever way you voted, no one can be happy at the moment.
Those who do not learn from the failures of history are bound to repeat them!
I voted leave but at this point I just don’t care what happens - just end it.

[Q
I voted leave but at this point I just don’t care what happens - just end it.[/QUOTE]

I still do care, I voted to leave and that's what I still want to do.

The Confederates in the US voted leave too. That didn't work out so well for them.

Doesn't work out that well for hermits either.

Like it or not, people gotta work on getting along. That is harder than making Nortons leak free.

You don't get it mate !
The EU is totally corrupt , arrogant and wasteful.
The UK taking laws from the EU equates with the Northern States being run by the defeated Southern States, it's got absolutely nothing to do with "people gotta work on getting along"
This is my country and I love it, but I'm sick of seeing it going down the pan.

trident sam said:

The UK taking laws from the EU equates with the Northern States being run by the defeated Southern States.

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Not quite Sam, it’s actually more akin to Washington having to take orders and laws and monetary policy from an unelected pseudo parliament set up in Uruguay to dictate to every country in the America’s.

Now... how ridiculous does THAT sound ?!

Well... it’s exactly what the EU is...

And I’m sure we could come up with an equally ridiculous Southern Hemisphere example that would put it into context for you guys down there.

Gortnipper, this has nothing to do with ‘getting along with people’ it’s about being governed by people and wiping out healthy cultural diversity in the name of ‘ever greater unity’.

I, like all Brits, love Europe and our European neighbours.

Part of the wonder and fascination of Europe IS THE VERY CULTURAL DIVERSITY that the EU project is trying to eradicate.

I don’t want Britain to be like France, just as I don’t want France to be like Britain!

Europe does not need the EU...

Yes I agree.
My point was defeated nations don't get to run victorious nations.
There is a well known comment from a German officer something like "yes you won the war but we will win the peace"
how right he turned out to be !

I still do care, I voted to leave and that's what I still want to do.

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Sam
I hear you, the problem is that the decision rests with those in the HOC - the vast majority of whom voted to remain - and they are using the strapline of “acting in the best interests of the country” i.e. their own best interests.
Corbyn, SNP, libs and Conservative remain rebels will never agree to any deal brought by the current PM or Conservative govt.
The only alternative is a clean break with trade negotiations (EU AND rest of the world) to follow, unfortunately the HOC has made it illegal for this to happen and we are now in ever decreasing circles - that’s what I want to end.
I know you get it - this is more in answer to the OP
Cheers
John

Agree with you entirely John .

sam

trident sam said:

At least if we are out of the EU, when I get fed up of the Torys screwing me I can vote someone else in to screw me instead.
I absolutely resent and always have done, having laws forced on us by failed states, which Germany and France are, as well as the rest of Europe.(Russia excepted)

Click to expand...

Germany and France failed states ? how do you work that one out ? think they have enjoyed a far better standard of livjng than than us for the past 30 years not to mention at least valueing there blue collar workers not treating them like something stood on on the pavement .
i wonder how the british farmers for one will like brexit when they lose there subsidies for set aside land ,ie grow nothing ,it can be the difference between life or death to their buisness

Dont you think its a joke that the torys keep giving the DUP millions to buy their support

what laws forced upon us from e.u do you not agree with ,

tax evasion is one of the ones that would be coming soon and about time !
the Tory chums cant get out the eu fast enough for fear of losing millions in offshore acounts
and no doubt theres a fortune to be made in hedge funds

its a different ball game in london to the northeren towns that had there traditional skills and trades that were ruined by Thatcher and her bitter loathing of the trade union movements

why is everyone despising corbin i think he would bring the balance back
you can slag the unions but most of you have probably nevery worked in heavy industry where its a hire and fire envoirnment , no company pension ,severance pay etc ,you cant blame anyone looking for a decent pay for a trade
thatcher didnt like skilled people as they could command a good wage , she started a culture of 6 week wonders psuedo tradesmen that has now left a void of skilled workers i think my generation are the last of the mohicans

this opened the gates up for them dammed foreingers as you say
i now work alongside poles ,spanish,indian and most of them are unfortunately better workers than most of our guys due to the lack of british industry and people to train them

currently i work in norway and here the workforce are all in the unions and management are only to happy to embrace them ,yet there are no strikes and everything is negotiated anually the managment sit next to the lowest grade worker for lunch and there is total respect for each other

in britain the youth are lazy and would rather play computer games abd smoke weed all day so you cant blame that polish girl in tesco for stealin your job shes probably hundreds of miles from home away from her family working for the minimum wage and doing it with a smile

no i dont hate the english ,i have a few sassenach mates that i tolerate
But i think scotland , and wales for that
matter dont have anything to lose from removing Englandshire
your sick of 30 years of eu

we are sick of Westminster and hae been since 1606

Corbyn bring balance back...! Yer avin’ a larf now surely...?

He spent his life publicly denigrating the EU and insisting the U.K. should be no part of it. Now he’s doing anything and everything he can to prevent either a deal or leaving without one. And he does this all whilst saying his party should remain neutral and having no proposals of his own.

Remain neutral! How can the official opposition party be neutral on the biggest political topic of our times!

Corbyn is a born anti establishment activist. How on Earth could he become head of the establishment ?!

desmo said:

we are sick of Westminster and hae been since 1606

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Says who?

Scotland held a democratic vote on the matter and voted to REMAIN in the United Kingdom.

The United Kingdom held a democratic vote regarding EU membership and voted to LEAVE.

These are both very straightforward democratic decisions. Period.

Saying they didn’t count, or should be reversed, or should be re held in the hope of a different outcome are all utterly and blatantly un democratic arguments.

desmo said:

why is everyone despising corbin i think he would bring the balance back

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I have worked all my adult life since leaving university - I come from a working class background, brought up on a council estate with both parents working - dad in a factory and mum at home sewing leather goods on an industrial machine located in the kitchen. I was brought up with a strong work ethic but also with ambition and aspiration - the first in my family to go to University, my parents wanting more for me than manual labour. I have worked as a teacher since 1984 holding many different roles including head teacher, I have always paid my bills and mortgage, contributed my share of tax and N.I. I have saved, paid my mortgage and receive a decent pension and I am financially comfortable - all of which makes me an enemy of the Labour Party - which I have voted for since I Was 18.
Not living in council or rented accommodation, having disposable income etc leads the momentum supported Jeremy Corbyn to consider me as “one of the rich!”
Until Corbyn and momentum go, the Labour Party is not a party of the aspirational worker
John

Fast Eddie said:

Says who?

Scotland held a democratic vote on the matter and voted to REMAIN in the United Kingdom.

The United Kingdom held a democratic vote regarding EU membership and voted to LEAVE.

These are both very straightforward democratic decisions. Period.

Saying they didn’t count, or should be reversed, or should be re held in the hope of a different outcome are all utterly and blatantly un democratic arguments.

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since the last indyref the goalposts have moved significantly !
the only thing that snookered it was a heavy project fear campaign last time ,that scared a lot of older voters!
just like the present remainers campaign.
people wont be fooled this time

youl no get yer pension

youl have to come out the eu


and the oil has dried up

ok now pension age gonna rise to 75 i believe under latest proposal

we ,Scotland gettin chucked out eu like it or lump it


oh yea oil dried up ? just commisioned equinor mariner and clyde fields with double recoverable estimates good for at least 40 years biggest platforms ever built in north sea , ,worked on them for 1 year welding golden welds so have first hand knowledge

And how about when the true wealth of the north sea was discovered THATCHER vetod all the reports and hurriedly moved all the marine territorys lest them kiltys get wind of it

so no wonder we are pissed off we could have been similar to Norway ie very rich country

David Cameron totaly blew it when as a kneejerk reaction he came away with the
,English Votes For English People ' dosent that sound divisive ?
they blamed the eu for everything when the blame lies firmly with westminster

desmo said:

when the blame lies firmly with westminster

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Desmo,
The blame lies firmly with all of our so called elected representatives...including those in Scotland. Under the SNP, education standards in Scotland have fallen, crime is up, poverty is up...
Of course it is not just the fault of the SNP but you cannot seriously believe they will suddenly become super effective and make Scotland a Utopia if they gain independence
Your premise re oil is flawed, the oil was discovered in UK territorial waters by UK companies and developed by UK and EU workers -including, but not exclusively, those who happen to live in Scotland
Not Scottish waters
Not Scottish companies
Not (just) Scottish workers
Before you jump to the conclusion, I am not anti Scottish - I have family in Strathaven and Edinburgh - I just don’t believe that Ms Sturgeon is telling you the whole truth (just like the Leave.Eu campaign)
Yes -Westminster is the problem, but so is Stormont, Holyrood and Senedd, none of them is telling the truth.

Desmo, its comments like your last line which make you sound far more emotional than you are logical.

Westminster is to blame for everything? Bit of a sweeping statement.

And you do realise that Scotland is represented in Westminster ?

And whilst we’re discussing being anti Scottish, my mother is Scottish, so I’m not guilty there either!

desmo said:

Germany and France failed states ? how do you work that one out ? think they have enjoyed a far better standard of livjng than than us for the past 30 years not to mention at least valueing there blue collar workers not treating them like something stood on on the pavement .
i wonder how the british farmers for one will like brexit when they lose there subsidies for set aside land ,ie grow nothing ,it can be the difference between life or death to their buisness

Dont you think its a joke that the torys keep giving the DUP millions to buy their support

what laws forced upon us from e.u do you not agree with ,

tax evasion is one of the ones that would be coming soon and about time !
the Tory chums cant get out the eu fast enough for fear of losing millions in offshore acounts
and no doubt theres a fortune to be made in hedge funds

its a different ball game in london to the northeren towns that had there traditional skills and trades that were ruined by Thatcher and her bitter loathing of the trade union movements

why is everyone despising corbin i think he would bring the balance back
you can slag the unions but most of you have probably nevery worked in heavy industry where its a hire and fire envoirnment , no company pension ,severance pay etc ,you cant blame anyone looking for a decent pay for a trade
thatcher didnt like skilled people as they could command a good wage , she started a culture of 6 week wonders psuedo tradesmen that has now left a void of skilled workers i think my generation are the last of the mohicans

this opened the gates up for them dammed foreingers as you say
i now work alongside poles ,spanish,indian and most of them are unfortunately better workers than most of our guys due to the lack of british industry and people to train them

currently i work in norway and here the workforce are all in the unions and management are only to happy to embrace them ,yet there are no strikes and everything is negotiated anually the managment sit next to the lowest grade worker for lunch and there is total respect for each other

in britain the youth are lazy and would rather play computer games abd smoke weed all day so you cant blame that polish girl in tesco for stealin your job shes probably hundreds of miles from home away from her family working for the minimum wage and doing it with a smile

no i dont hate the english ,i have a few sassenach mates that i tolerate
But i think scotland , and wales for that
matter dont have anything to lose from removing Englandshire
your sick of 30 years of eu

we are sick of Westminster and hae been since 1606

Click to expand...

Germany and France are failed states as they failed to protect their citizens in the 2nd world war.
Without the USA,Germany , France us and the rest of Europe would still not have recovered.
They damned well owe us their freedom .
I've never voted Tory in my life, I'm from Liverpool for God's sake and it's not allowed there, and believe me I despised Thatcher as much as you.
I've been a union member all my working life , first in the AEU when working in heavy industry and then the FBU for thirty years.
Corbyn is a no choice, he is just a professional protester .