Production Dating Question (2010)

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illf8ed said:
I believe 134108 was the first 20M3S Wolverhampton engine in a fastback.
What I suspect is since 131257 which was a 750 S and this model had 20M3S engine from this number all the 750 S engines came from Wolverhampton (no "P") and all fastback 20M3 engines up to 134108 came from Woolwich , Plumbstead Rd and should have the "P".
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20M3S (750 S type) production supposedly commenced in or around March 1969 at which time neither 20M3S or 20M3 engines, would have had the 'P' suffix until engine production commenced at Wolverhampton some months later (September 1969?) so I don't think the absence of the P suffix in early 1969 necessarily indicates that it's an engine built at Wolverhampton.

The Fastback is supposed to have had the 20M3S engine from 133668 Edit: although there does appear to be examples of 1969 20M3S Fastbacks with serial numbers earlier than 133668.
 
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L.A.B. said:
20M3S (750 S type) production supposedly commenced in or around March 1969 at which time neither 20M3S or 20M3 engines, would have had the 'P' suffix until engine production commenced at Wolverhampton some months later (September 1969?) so I don't think the absence of the P suffix in early 1969 necessarily indicates that it's an engine built at Wolverhampton.

The Fastback is supposed to have had the 20M3S engine from 133668 Edit: although there does appear to be examples of 1969 20M3S Fastbacks with serial numbers earlier than 133668.
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Got it Thanks. Will let you know if I find any pre 131257 fastback engines with “P”.
 
As I understand it, the 'P' suffix was originally used to identify Plumstead-built engines from a Bracebridge St. engines, however, it seems the 'P' continued to be stamped on Atlas, Hybrid, etc. engines long after the Bracebridge works closed and at least as late as 1968 but not (usually?) on Commando engines.
 
What is causing confusion is this article related to Norton Villiers production on line. So all Commando engines were build in Wolverhampton until Andover commenced? Woolwich factory in London did assembly only for Commandos?

A new flagship machine was needed to replace the current ageing models, and so in 1967 the Commando was developed, just in time for the Earls Court Show. The first production machines were completed in April 1968, but there were bending problems with the frame and so a new frame was developed, and introduced in January 1969. The original model, now called the 'Fastback' was joined by the 'S Type' which had a high level left-side exhaust and a 2.5 gallon petrol tank.

Initially the engines were produced in Wolverhampton, the frames in Manchester and the components were assembled at Burrage Grove, Plumstead. The Plumstead works were subject to a Greater London Council compulsory purchase order, late in 1968 and closed in the following July. After a Government subsidy, an assembly line was set up in a factory at North Way, Andover, with the Test Department in an aircraft hanger on nearby Thruxton Airfield.
 
Or all engines from start to end of the Commando era were built in Wolverhampton?
 
illf8ed said:
What is causing confusion is this article related to Norton Villiers production on line. So all Commando engines were build in Wolverhampton until Andover commenced?
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According to the available information, it was exactly the opposite. NV at Wolverhampton began building Commando engines when production moved from Plumstead to Andover in 1969. Prior to that as far as I'm aware, Commando engines were built at Plumstead.


illf8ed said:
A new flagship machine was needed to replace the current ageing models, and so in 1967 the Commando was developed, just in time for the Earls Court Show. The first production machines were completed in April 1968, but there were bending problems with the frame and so a new frame was developed, and introduced in January 1969. The original model, now called the 'Fastback' was joined by the 'S Type' which had a high level left-side exhaust and a 2.5 gallon petrol tank.
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Yes, but I'm not sure what point it is you are making.


illf8ed said:
Initially the engines were produced in Wolverhampton,
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That as far as I'm aware is wrong.


illf8ed said:
the frames in Manchester
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Certainly wrong. It was Reynolds in Birmingham.
 
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illf8ed said:
Or all engines from start to end of the Commando era were built in Wolverhampton?
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I don't know exactly how big the Plumstead AMC factory was but I'd guess it must have been a fair size as AJS and Matchless motorcycles were manufactured there as well as Nortons so there shouldn't have been any lack of manufacturing facilities or skilled manpower that could build Commando engines especially due to the downturn in sales of AJS and Matchless models, therefore, logically, it seems to make no sense to have had engines built at Wolverhampton until the move to North Way, Andover, which was a comparatively small 'assembly plant' rather than a 'factory'.

Edit:
If some (or all?) early Commando engines were assembled at Wolverhampton and not Plumstead then I don't understand why various publictions state 134108 was "the First Wolverhampton-built engine"?
 
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L.A.B. said:
I don't know exactly how big the Plumstead AMC factory was but I'd guess it must have been a fair size as AJS and Matchless motorcycles were manufactured there as well as Nortons so there shouldn't have been any lack of manufacturing facilities or skilled manpower that could build Commando engines especially due to the downturn in sales of AJS and Matchless models, therefore, logically, it seems to make no sense to have had engines built at Wolverhampton until the move to North Way, Andover, which was a comparatively small 'assembly plant' rather than a 'factory'.

Edit:
If some (or all?) early Commando engines were assembled at Wolverhampton and not Plumstead then I don't understand why various publictions state 134108 was "the First Wolverhampton-built engine"?
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You got me. I copied and pasted from the online article about Norton Villiers production. Guess it was all in error. You can understand why I’m confused.
 
illf8ed said:
I copied and pasted from the online article about Norton Villiers production. Guess it was all in error. You can understand why I’m confused.
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Well, it's possible there's more to it than we know?
 
Agree. I just wanted to know if my ‘69 750 S engine was built in a different factory than my ‘72 750. Interesting, but not really important. ID plate on the ‘69 shows Norton Villiers London.
 
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