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Price and value

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Related Discussions' started by acotrel, Jun 19, 2019.

  1. Danno

    Danno

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2010
    I never hit anything solid, but I did put it in a ditch trying to keep up with a Triumph Bonneville on a tight, twisty backroad. Pretty much got me back into Britbikes where I started.
     
  2. acotrel

    acotrel

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2012
    Craig, some of us have learned to live with the realities of life. Others base what they do on pure speculation. Motorcycle sport in Australia has mainly been shit, because the people who organise have usually never raced solo motorcycles. When I was a kid, many of the top road race riders were in the Sandringham Motorcycle Club and the meetings they organised were excellent. These days not many clubs are into organising road race meetings and the historic racing is organised by sidecar people, who simply would not know.
    In Australia, our education system is staffed by people who have never had real jobs, so only know what they have ben told or have read about. Who does the telling and who writes the books ? The kids are victims of their environment.
    Are there many autobiographies which have been written by people such as Surtees, Hailwood or Agostini ?
     
  3. acotrel

    acotrel

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2012
    If you don't want to end up bitter like me, never think about what COULD have been. I have only ever organised one road race meeting. It was a success, but I would never do that again.
     
  4. Craig

    Craig VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Maybe you should become involved in organizing some races that you have so much experience in and obviously love so much .... as far as teachers go I have lived with a special ed. teacher ,for almost 45 years , she now retired .... keep your negative thoughts on that subject to yourself please ... also your bitter all encompassing negative blanket statements can and have become tiresome .... you a smart man use your experience to try and right some of the wrongs that bother you so much .... take care
     
  5. Woody850

    Woody850 VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2017
    I was a young lad in the Air Force in North Wales riding a 500/4 like heltum skeltum and remember a new recruit came on camp. I can't remember what he rode but in a short time bought an RD 350 and took leave. He was due back on the Sunday night when a dreadful storm was blowing on the north coast. Even then my fears grew as he was not very experienced. We found out in the morning he never made it back along the coast.
    Because he was new he hadn't made any real friends so myself and another biker were selected to give the firearms salute at his funeral. It still chills me to this day when I think of his mother huddled over the grave mourning. I have never forgotten that lad nor how quick it can end.
     
  6. Eljahara

    Eljahara VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2018
    As a teacher, this is an argument I have heard many, many times. Teaching is a real job -just like banking, working in an office etc. It may not produce an item where manufacturing would but it does produce well rounded, intelligent, knowledgeable young people ready to take on the next phase of their journey - whether that is a “real job” or an office role or teaching.
    Recent initiatives have encouraged older people to go into teaching, those who have had a “real job” first - not many have stayed longer than a year or two as the job is not what they expected.
    Just because you have been to school, college, university does not make you an expert just like buying your good in a supermarket does not make you an expert in the retail industry.
    In relation to your countrymen, I have worked in schools which have had exchange programmes for teachers based in Melbourne schools. The teachers who have spent a year in the U.K. have been excellent, dedicated and professional and the teachers I worked with for a year when in Melbourne were certainly not failing the children in their care.
    As for writing or reading the books, teachers today are the most qualified they have ever been -all teachers have to have a degree, the vast majority have a masters degree (compulsory in the US after a number of years) and there are more PHD Qualified educators than ever before.(this includes your countrymen)

    I do not know what you did for a job but I have always held the opinion that I would be foolish to tell someone how to do their job, or to tell them they are doing the job wrong, when they have held that career for a number of years, I simply ask for the same courtesy.
     
    t ingermanson, ashman and Craig like this.
  7. ashman

    ashman

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Not all aussies think like Al (acotrel) I worked in education for 31 years at a TEC college (TAFE) not as a teacher but the teachers have spent there lives working in the real world and become teachers from motor mec, welders, fitters and turners to business and computer experts etc, and most part time teacher work at there normal jobs dueing the day to teach at night in their expertise or trade, so for Al to come out with what he has said about teachers, and new teachers get well trained in their field, its also up to the students to put in the effort to learn, maybe Al has had to many crashes on the track and its affecting his way of thinking, who knows.
    All teachers are deacated to their jobs from schools teachers to trade teachers.

    Ashley
     
    Eljahara likes this.
  8. Danno

    Danno

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2010
    Too many public school districts in the USA have de-emphasized or even scrapped their industrial arts programs in favor of turf athletic fields, big scoreboards and a lot of hoo-hah, leaving the non-athletes to scrape by on whatever. Some use the IA programs as a dumping ground for students who can't hack history and math, frustrating the teachers who believe we're forgetting how to do things other than punch a button and wait for a result. Trade Unions have been gutted by the greedy at the top, trade schools are going belly-up and corporations are having to set up their own in-house training programs because new hires off the street bring nothing to the table.

    I know there are a lot of teachers who have scant real-world experience, but are still capable of helping students pursue their goals by showing them how to go about it. Blaming those on the bottom rung for what those at the top are doing is misguided and dangerous.
     
    Eljahara likes this.
  9. Eljahara

    Eljahara VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2018
    Ash,
    My year in Melbourne showed me this to be true!
    Great respect for all I met and worked with.
    John
     
    ashman likes this.
  10. NPeteN

    NPeteN

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2018
    What is real world experience though? I would argue kids are better off not hearing about the real world until they can experience it for themselves.

    The way teachers are treated in the US, and what I'm now learning extends around the world is abhorrent.

    These people deal with your shitty kids all day everyday and in some cases actually manage to create better human beings!
     
  11. Eljahara

    Eljahara VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2018
    Pete,
    There are no “shitty kids” only interesting challenges!
    I have been in education since 1984 and I can honestly say the overwhelming majority of young people I have come across are fantastic -and yes I have taught in some challenging circumstances, particularly in London.
    Children mirror society, there are some bad choices made and sometimes a “we know best attitude” just the same as adults... I guess the adults who are a problem were once intresting challenges themselves.
    John
     
    ashman likes this.
  12. Bernhard

    Bernhard

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011

    Forgive me for saying this, but, “I was fairly safety conscious from the 'get go so always had the head light on”

    Oh really- and here you are riding without an helmet, assuming this is you?
     
  13. Danno

    Danno

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2010
    An interviewer once asked Sting, who had been a schoolteacher, what the difference was between being a teacher and being a rock star and he said, "It's basically the same thing, entertaining a roomful of delinquents for a half-hour at a time."

    Some folks are just not suited to some jobs.
     
    NPeteN likes this.
  14. Craig

    Craig VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    I hope Sting better teacher than rock star .... just sayin’
     
  15. NPeteN

    NPeteN

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2018
    Doesn't sound like it
     
    Craig likes this.
  16. acotrel

    acotrel

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2012
    When I was in secondary school in year 12, there was subject English Expression - Clear Thinking, which should have been taught from about year 9 right through to year 12. It is probably still only taught in year 12. It is extremely important because it helps kids to critically analyse what has been said to them, by those who would manipulate. I don't think many school teachers get subjected to the level of manipulation which occurs in many large companies. My background has been in very large engineering companies and I have done sessional teaching in our tech. schools. One of the worst things that happens, is school teachers with no real industrial experience, teaching kids about workplace OHS. When the kids end up in jobs . . . ? In Australia, our hierarchies are often hierarchies of ignorance.
    For the 100 years prior to about 1992. Workplace OHS was subject to prescriptive legislation. Our OHS legislation is now performance based. How many school teachers know the difference ?

    Unfortunately 1992 was too late. It was after the change to neoliberal globalism and our manufacturing was already committed to going offshore.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  17. ashman

    ashman

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Thats not teachers fault it the Goverment that is running the country at the time, they surply the money and decide what is taugh in our schools, they throw more money to private schools and the public schools suffer where 80% of kids go, no wounder the education is in such a mess, working in TAFE for over 31 years and doing course where cheap but throught the years the GOVERMENT wanted to run TAFE as a business or privatitise it and things just went down hill from there, course fees just trippled in price and even higher and private Compertition was taking over but of course the training skills went down from the private comertition, I took a redundancy when it was offered and the people who didn't were all gone after 2 months, it was a big mistake of the GOVT. of the day and the faults of private courses were starting to come out but the damage was done and the skill of training young ones has suffered.
    Rich private schools are still getting money thrown at them by the GOVERMENT and the public schools are still suffering where 80% of students go where most working parent are struggling to just to keep their heads above water paying the bills and to live, no wonder our country has gone down the tube.

    Ashley
     
  18. Eljahara

    Eljahara VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2018
    Al -you are hopeless!
    You appear to be basing your argument and assumptions on an experience many years ago, you say you are 77 so you were in year 12 about 60 years ago?
    Education, just like Engineering, moves on and I think you might be surprised about what is taught in schools today - who in 1959/1960 could have imagined a world where the majority of information was instantly available via a hand held device which has more computing power than the entire defence systems of many countries at the time, where communication with individuals half way round the world takes seconds and where a modern motorcycle fault is diagnosed by an IT specialist before a mechanic touches it.
    Children and young people are now expected to be prepared for jobs that don’t currently exist so rather than teaching specific set facts the focus is on enabling them to develop problem solving skills and critical thinking.
    Today’s children and young people are expected to have 6-8 different jobs in their lifetime whereas we were expected to have a single career choice.
    I don’t know if you were good at your job but I would not categorise all engineers as poor or incompetent just because one engineer fixed my car but neglected to fill it with oil resulting in the company having to replace a complete engine because it seized (true experience!)
    It looks like we will have to agree to disagree on this one
     
  19. acotrel

    acotrel

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2012
    I was on a Standards Australia committee about 10 years ago helping to write 'the guide to managing risk in motor sport', on behalf of Winton Motor Raceway who had initiated the activity. In my opening address, I mentioned the four major areas of operational risk which are encountered in every business. The chair-person was a university professor. He could not get his head around what I said, because he had never had the relevant experience. It is part of a balancing act done by middle managers in industry.
    Craig said I am smart. Actually I am just a highly-trained rat. When I first started work, many of my bosses were refugee scientists from Europe. So I am fully-programmed to think in a certain way, that is not so common.
    About private schools - for all their money, - in Australia the best scientists, engineers and medical doctors come out of selective-entry public schools. And that really galls the upstart wealthy.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  20. acotrel

    acotrel

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2012
    I have always been happy with the basics which are taught in our schools. I attended night classes up until age 57. It is much easier than researching your own areas of interest. But I still don't see evidence that my grand-kids are being taught to think critically. If they were, they would be much more likely to register to vote.
     

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