Post tariff world

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Keep the factories away! During a tour of Geneva Steel in 1992, I thought I had gone to Hell. Let's keeps the air/water clean and preserve what's left of the curvy roads!

-'NIMBY' (not in my backyard)
 
Here is the official Canadian Government Duty(tariff) and tax calculator.
I have punched every item my little heart could ever desire plus quite a few others into this calculator and the result is always the same. If it comes from USA, Canada or Mexico then tariff is 0.
The calculator gives values prior to March 4 this year as it has not been updated for the Trade War& retaliatory tariffs.

https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel-voyage/dte-acl/est-cal-eng.html
 
worntorn said:
Glen
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NickZ said:
If you believe that, you should look up "Smoot-Hawley Tarriff Act. Even though it finally passed thru congress in 1930, just having it proposed caused the panic which precipitated the crash in 1929.
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I most certainly do believe in my statement.

So does University of Chicago Nobel laureate Robert Lucas and Yale economist Robert Shiller to MIT economists Rudiger Dornbush and Stanley Fischer, is that since the foreign-trade sector was only about 7 percent of gross national product and could not explain much of the market decline.

Those aligning these modern tariffs the Smoot-Hawley act fail to note the S-H act was not implemented until 1931, two years AFTER the market crash.

US national income plummeting over 36% was one of the main triggers of the 29' crash but S-H was a very minor concern and did not in any way shape or form trigger said crash.
 
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worntorn said:
Sorry, I don't see any info on pre-existing Canadian tariffs there.
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Lumber in the 80's. Public land harvested/subsidized lumber. Tariffs and retaliatory tariffs.

Something else.

The real point of the US tariff on Canadian products is to close the porous northern border. A now honest attempt to slow the continual smuggling and transport of drugs/fentanyl as well as the human trafficking and illegal aliens crossing from Canada into the US.
Lots of very recent Canadian activity and countermeasures in response to US implemented tariffs.
Border security increases, drugs illegal alien crossing decreases, tariff application decreases.
 
Lineslinger said:
I most certainly do believe in my statement.

So does University of Chicago Nobel laureate Robert Lucas and Yale economist Robert Shiller to MIT economists Rudiger Dornbush and Stanley Fischer, is that since the foreign-trade sector was only about 7 percent of gross national product and could not explain much of this decline.

Those aligning these modern tariffs the Smoot-Hawley act fail to note the S-H act was not implemented until 1931, two years AFTER the market crash.

US national income plummeting over 36% was one of the main triggers of the 29' crash but S-H was a very minor concern and did not in any way shape or form trigger said crash.
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The Smoot- Hawley bill was passed in the House of Representatives (voted 264 for to 147 against) in May of 1929. The markets, which prefer to anticipate events rather than react to them, were apparently soon convinced it was going to become law. Stock market crashed in October 1929.
 
NickZ said:
The Smoot- Hawley bill was passed in the House of Representatives (voted 264 for to 147 against) in May of 1929. The markets, which prefer to anticipate events rather than react to them, were apparently soon convinced it was going to become law. Stock market crashed in October 1929.
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Okay.

Your opinion, more power to you.
My opinion? I'll stick with the observations of the Nobel winning and MIT economists.
They seem to be pretty well informed on the subject.
 
As per lumber in and out of Canada. When i lived in New Hampshire i used to see truckloads of logs harvested in the US being trucked by Canadian trucks to what i assumed was Canada. I could be wrong but i see no other reason for them to want to deal with US DOT rules unless they were taking them north. There were also a number of smaller saw mills around that rough cut pine and then shipped it north of the border for kiln drying and planeing. I never quite understood the economics of that but i watched it happen.
 
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Lineslinger said:
Lumber in the 80's. Public land harvested/subsidized lumber. Tariffs and retaliatory tariffs.

Something else.

The real point of the US tariff on Canadian products is to close the porous northern border. A now honest attempt to slow the continual smuggling and transport of drugs/fentanyl as well as the human trafficking and illegal aliens crossing from Canada into the US.
Lots of very recent Canadian activity and countermeasures in response to US implemented tariffs.
Border security increases, drugs illegal alien crossing decreases, tariff application decreases.
Click to expand...
Your original statement ,that I know to be wrong, is that the US tariffs are a response to existing Canadian Tariffs.
Prior to March 4 Canada did not have a Tariff on US lumber. The USA did have a tariff of 14.5% on Canadian lumber. That is not a Canadian Tariff.
Re the border.
I'm never sure if the US people who make the claim about the porous border know how the border crossings work. From the comments made, it seems that most folks who live far away from the borders do not understand what happens there.
The US DEA has determined that almost all drugs and other contraband entering the US does so at the land crossings, mostly hidden in Semi Trailer loads.
Almost all of that comes via the Mexican US border.
The US seized 21,000 pounds of Fentanyl at that border last year.
The US seized 23 pounds at the Northern border.
In March of this year,the US border agents seized 3 grams of Fentanyl at the Northern border, not even enough for a weekend for 1.
So the amount of Fentanyl coming from Canada into the US is miniscule.
The amount of illegal drugs flowing from the US into Canada is many times that great. This is due to the fact that the US has 9 times the population and 3 times the crime rate of Canada.
We dont complain about this ( I'm not complaining, just stating facts) because it is actually our responsibility to determine what and who get into our country.
That is how the US / Canada land crossings are set up.
Canada stops and checks Northbound traffic. If we screw up, bad things get into our country.
The US stops and checks Southbound traffic. Same deal, if the US agents miss a hidden drug shipment, it will get into the US.
So it's actually the reverse of what the Politicians have been discussing and the common US view " Those Canadians need to do something about their porous border" The border is like a fence between neighbours, it's not mine or yours, it's ours.
I'm all for beefing security up in both directions, but if you really want to get it down to zero Fentanyl or other drugs coming into the US, then the US needs to increase security on their side.
As it is, to pacify Trump ( didnt work!), we have increased security on the Canadian side, the result of which has been an increase in seizures of illegal drugs and guns coming from the US.
So think of it in reverse of what is always discussed and you will be spot on.

Glen
 
The only things I know for sure:
1) Ronald Reagan's tariff on memory chips destroyed my thriving computer business in less than a month and nothing good came of the tariffs.
2) I won't be replenishing my AN, Wassell, Amal parts stock if I have to pay tariffs and broker fees. My selling volume is very low and my purchasing volume is high. Much like the national debt. There's no way I can sell parts at 10% more with the bigger players having much more in stock today.
3) If my losses mean much, the stock market IS crashing. Between Friday and Yesterday, I lost more money than I made in my first 10 years of adult life.
4) If I lose big again today, I will start pulling those investments that I can without being destroyed by taxes and put them where they can't be lost - I bet millions are thinking the same way. BTW, I own three foreign stocks, and they are doing fine.
 
Some good points and though I could spend more seat time with my own selective internet search/retort I am instead moving on to a much preferred activity.
Agree to disagree for now.
Be well.

Grounds of preferred activity

Post tariff world
 
MikeG said:
As per lumber in and out of Canada. When i lived in New Hampshire i used to see truckloads of logs harvested in the US being trucked by Canadian trucks to what i assumed was Canada. I could be wrong but i see no other reason for them to want to deal with US DOT rules unless they were taking them north. There were also a number of smaller saw mills around that rough cut pine and then shipped it north of the border for kiln drying and planeing. I never quite understood the economics of that but i watched it happen.
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Surgical tariffs could be helpful. Virginia has a steel mill (mostly iron ingots and castings). If you look at manhole covers in Fairfax Country Virginia, you will see "Made in India" on those owned by the county. Put a targeted tariff on cast iron finished products from India and maybe Fairfax County would buy from the steel mill in the or own state!
 
marshg246 said:
The only things I know for sure:
1) Ronald Reagan's tariff on memory chips destroyed my thriving computer business in less than a month and nothing good came of the tariffs.
2) I won't be replenishing my AN, Wassell, Amal parts stock if I have to pay tariffs and broker fees. My selling volume is very low and my purchasing volume is high. Much like the national debt. There's no way I can sell parts at 10% more with the bigger players having much more in stock today.
3) If my losses mean much, the stock market IS crashing. Between Friday and Yesterday, I lost more money than I made in my first 10 years of adult life.
4) If I lose big again today, I will start pulling those investments that I can without being destroyed by taxes and put them where they can't be lost - I bet millions are thinking the same way. BTW, I own three foreign stocks, and they are doing fine.
Click to expand...

Relayed to me today.
This stock market collapse is not going to continue for long, and the likelihood of a recession is not realistic. Bessent is not resigning. Fake news.
Trump is not going to back off. Believe him when he says that, and do not believe the rumors in the media. While most think it was a major mistake and some say stupid, they chose this approach to force the foreign governments to the table on the whole trade and financial system.
The Tariffs are just the way the force negotiations. Most other nations are in a weak position economically, and that includes China which is the main point of this whole thing, along with the EU.
They will begin to do deals with the main players this week, and especially the EU. There is no way they can do deals with everyone at once so they will get to preliminary agreements and then say they will defer the tariffs on that country, or the EU, while they take the time to finalize the agreements. The market will rebound strongly when they say this, maybe by this weekend or early next week.
 
About lumber. Trees in north grows slower and is stronger. So more useful for buildings. Higher volume south more profitable as pulp and paper. A reason for cross border trade.
 
Lineslinger said:
Relayed to me today.
This stock market collapse is not going to continue for long, and the likelihood of a recession is not realistic. Bessent is not resigning. Fake news.
Trump is not going to back off. Believe him when he says that, and do not believe the rumors in the media. While most think it was a major mistake and some say stupid, they chose this approach to force the foreign governments to the table on the whole trade and financial system.
The Tariffs are just the way the force negotiations. Most other nations are in a weak position economically, and that includes China which is the main point of this whole thing, along with the EU.
They will begin to do deals with the main players this week, and especially the EU. There is no way they can do deals with everyone at once so they will get to preliminary agreements and then say they will defer the tariffs on that country, or the EU, while they take the time to finalize the agreements. The market will rebound strongly when they say this, maybe by this weekend or early next week.
Click to expand...
IMHO, considering that many countries have a GDP higher than their debt, including China, India, and Russia, and the US doesn't means that those countries can easily snub their noses at us and retaliate.

I thought things were bad in the last administration and moved a bunch of money to safety - I clearly need to do more of that after today's losses!
 
Mike40M said:
About lumber. Trees in north grows slower and is stronger. So more useful for buildings. Higher volume south more profitable as pulp and paper. A reason for cross border trade.
Click to expand...
But shipping trees from our northwest to China and finished lumber back is hard to understand!
 
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Lineslinger said:
Relayed to me today.
This stock market collapse is not going to continue for long, and the likelihood of a recession is not realistic. Bessent is not resigning. Fake news.
Trump is not going to back off. Believe him when he says that, and do not believe the rumors in the media. While most think it was a major mistake and some say stupid, they chose this approach to force the foreign governments to the table on the whole trade and financial system.
The Tariffs are just the way the force negotiations. Most other nations are in a weak position economically, and that includes China which is the main point of this whole thing, along with the EU.
They will begin to do deals with the main players this week, and especially the EU. There is no way they can do deals with everyone at once so they will get to preliminary agreements and then say they will defer the tariffs on that country, or the EU, while they take the time to finalize the agreements. The market will rebound strongly when they say this, maybe by this weekend or early next week.
Click to expand...
Hmm. Perhaps. Perhaps the rest of the world will simply trade more with the 96% outside the US?
I really don’t know.
 
marshg246 said:
IMHO, considering that many countries have a GDP higher than their debt, including China, India, and Russia, and the US doesn't means that those countries can easily snub their noses at us and retaliate.

I thought things were bad in the last administration and moved a bunch of money to safety - I clearly need to do more of that after today's losses!
Click to expand...
You haven't lost anything until you sell.
 
NickZ said:
You haven't lost anything until you sell.
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True but not true! The majority of my investments today were made for the dividends they pay. When the market goes to hell so do dividends. Also the additional investments I've made over the last 5 years are there in shares that are not lost but had I put that money put in an instrument that cannot lose money and pays interest those additional investments would have increased in value, not lost. I would have a LOT more money today if I put those additional investments in a mattress!

Normally, "dollar cost averaging" saves the day but that has not worked out for a long time.
 
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