Pazon Ign. V Boyer Micro digital

Possibly a can of worm question...
I'm after views please on the pros & cons for both systems.... set up, reliability. starting issues etc.
Can i also ask I'm told that with the Pazon, you can you either 3.0 or 4.2 ohm single coil (with twin leads)... which is the best to use or doesn't it make a difference?

Many thanks

Yes

The answer is Wassell, but not necessarily to that question.

.....you don't get just to ask about a specific Boyer product against the whole Pazon range...

Which Pazon are you considering, the Surefire for example is a good product, but it isn't digital!

3.0 Ohms is, most generally, what Eis like. They seem to function as designed with a range of 2.8 to 3.4. With 4.2 you are on the edge (going up from there) of a no start, or a noticeable loss of performance; at primary resistances above optimum the high power electronics begin having trouble distinguishing between legitimate trigger signals from errant capacitor discharges. Lower ohm coils will provide a good spark, but begin to increase the current (amps) that flows in the system box; this in turn increases the amount of heat that needs to be shed, which will decrease the useful life of the EI; placement of the EI's black box (excepting Tri-Spark) needs to considered, regarding cooling air flow and any nearby heat sources.

The manufacturers don't keep coil resistance requirements a secret, virtually all manufactures publish installation instructions on their webs sites or will answer their e-mails in reasonable time. I can't speak for programmable or optic EIs, but for working man's variety of Boyer, Pazon or Tri-Spark, they like 3 Ohms of total primary coil(s) resistance.

My new just received Boyer Micro MK IV kit says total resistance should not be less than 3.5 Ohms.
Should I fit my also new 5 Ohm. NGK end caps to the also new copper core leads , or find 2 smaller Ohm caps ?

Torontonian said:

My new just received Boyer Micro MK IV kit says total resistance should not be less than 3.5 Ohms.
Should I fit my also new 5 Ohm. NGK end caps to the also new copper core leads , or find 2 smaller Ohm caps ?

Click to expand...

The NGK caps would be 5K ohms -5000 ohms. For noise suppression.

That has nothing to do with the required primary resistance of 3.5 ohms minimum

comnoz said:

The NGK caps would be 5K ohms -5000 ohms. For noise suppression.

That has nothing to do with the required primary resistance of 3.5 ohms minimum

Click to expand...

Noise suppression?
Dear Jim, please excuse my ignorance, but how does resistive plug caps suppress engine noise?
My bike (PW3 on 850 Mk2A engine) has always been extremely noisy, either with Dunstall silencers or with Peashooters.
I have been told that at speed, it sounds like a P38 Lightning on a low altitude straffing pass! Anything that could lower its roaring thunder, even fractionally, would be welcome.
The noise level is perfectly normal on idle, but as soon as the throttle is open by 1/4 or more I am worried I could be fired upon with an AAC missile at no notice, if you see what I mean...

SteveA said:

.....you don't get just to ask about a specific Boyer product against the whole Pazon range...

Which Pazon are you considering, the Surefire for example is a good product, but it isn't digital!

Click to expand...

That would be the Pazon sure fire V Boyer Micro digital .... feed back on both please good & bad

Jagbruno said:

Noise suppression?
Dear Jim, please excuse my ignorance, but how does resistive plug caps suppress engine noise?
My bike (PW3 on 850 Mk2A engine) has always been extremely noisy, either with Dunstall silencers or with Peashooters.
I have been told that at speed, it sounds like a P38 Lightning on a low altitude straffing pass! Anything that could lower its roaring thunder, even fractionally, would be welcome.
The noise level is perfectly normal on idle, but as soon as the throttle is open by 1/4 or more I am worried I could be fired upon with an AAC missile at no notice, if you see what I mean...

Click to expand...

No one in their right mind would want to suppress the noise of a well-tuned Commando
The noise being referred to is RF or radio frequency noise, sometimes referred to as EMI, electro-magnetic interference.

B+Bogus said:

No one in their right mind would want to suppress the noise of a well-tuned Commando
The noise being referred to is RF or radio frequency noise, sometimes referred to as EMI, electro-magnetic interference.

Click to expand...

Or... Buzzing on your radio!

Off topic guys....

Jagbruno said:

Noise suppression?
Dear Jim, please excuse my ignorance, but how does resistive plug caps suppress engine noise?
My bike (PW3 on 850 Mk2A engine) has always been extremely noisy, either with Dunstall silencers or with Peashooters.
I have been told that at speed, it sounds like a P38 Lightning on a low altitude straffing pass! Anything that could lower its roaring thunder, even fractionally, would be welcome.
The noise level is perfectly normal on idle, but as soon as the throttle is open by 1/4 or more I am worried I could be fired upon with an AAC missile at no notice, if you see what I mean...

Click to expand...

The noise is electrical noise -radio signals -that may interfere with the operation of the ignition unit or the voltage regulator.
[or your phone, so then you wouldn't be able to text while doing those strafing runs]

olympus
I have tried both the Boyer Micro Power (an early red box version) and the Paxon Smartfire (with the rev limiter function) but not the Surefire you mention which looks to use a different 3.0+ ohm coil.

Both the Boyer and Smartfire use the special low resistance PVL 0.6ohm twin lead coil readily available for modern Triumphs at £50.00 or so.
They are easy to set up but the Boyer needs revving over 4000 rpm to test max advance at my preferred (for e start) 28-29 degrees.

Pazon didn,t fire up from new, replaced under warranty from NZ, went OK for a while, then rev limiter defaulted to 3000rpm/50 mph on M3 coming back from London until I disabled it.
Used it at Spa Bikers Classic weekend in 2011 but it then did the no hot start thing until it cools down.
Replaced with Trispark which went great for a few thousand miles then suffered the same fate in June this year.
My bike doesn,t run abnormally hot by the way, but gets well used.

Gratefully replaced under warranty from Trispark in Oz but in desperation, refitted my much abused and ancient Boyer with PVL coil, instantly fired up and has done a trouble free 5000 miles since June.
Red box unit simply velcro,d to the left side of the battery under the side panel.
Starts and idles perfectly, though the stabilisation and pickup, (possibly due to the better advance curve) on the Trispark is better at times, but to be honest, the Boyer is hard to fault and with good carburation, a sweet and ultra reliable performer for a street bike.

I,ll be refitting the Trispark, with it,s own 3.0 ohm twin coil for the above reasons, but the old Boyer system will remain on the bike as backup. Great local customer service from Boyer too who advised on a suitable coil.

KiwiNeill said:

I have tried both the Boyer Micro Digital and the Paxon Smartfire (with the rev limiter function)
but not the Surefire which looks to use a different coil.
Both the Boyer and the Smartfire use the special low resistance PVL 0.6ohm twin lead coil readily available for modern Triumphs at £50.00 or so.

Click to expand...

Boyer Micro-DIGITAL uses standard coils. Boyer Micro-POWER uses low resistance coils.

http://www.boyerbransden.com/faq.html

"Why Can't I Use A Micro Power Coil With An MK3 Or Micro Digital System?
The very high currents that would flow would damage both the unit and the coil. the Micro Power coil can only be used with the Micro Power ignition unit; Micro Digital and MK3 ignition units are designed to work with contact breaker type ignition coils only."

olympus said:

Possibly a can of worm question...
I'm after views please on the pros & cons for both systems.... set up, reliability. starting issues etc.
Can i also ask I'm told that with the Pazon, you can you either 3.0 or 4.2 ohm single coil (with twin leads)... which is the best to use or doesn't it make a difference?

Many thanks

Click to expand...

Olympus,

I think it depends on what you are looking for from the system. There are many to choose from, but as Triton Thrasher said the Wassell(Vape) system is certainly worth considering. To me it looks like the quality is as good as, or superior to anything else plus they can be obtained for less that £80.

Cheers,

cliffa.

L.A.B
My apologies, you are correct, post edited. Forgot to add, the Micro Power kit is supplied with the low resistance twin lead coil and either resistor plugs or caps must be used.

The coil conversation do a make me wonder how many EI failures are related to wrong coils being fitted for a given EI unit...

So is my new Micro MK IV a digital black box or not ? The instructions do not say. It does say that standard coils are fine to use.

Torontonian said:

So is my new Micro MK IV a digital black box or not ? The instructions do not say. It does say that standard coils are fine to use.

Click to expand...

Boyer Micro-MkIII and Micro-MkIV are analog(ue).

http://www.boyerbransden.com/micromarkiv.html
"The Boyer Bransden range of Analogue MKIII ignition units are being progressively changed to improved MKIV versions. The changes are designed to improve the timing stability if engine starting with a very low or variable battery voltage. The design changes are internal and do not affect the external appearance of the unit. Identified by the 'MKIV' caption on the label the new units are fully interchangeable with previously produced MK3 and MK1a units, and offer improved performance for both electric and kick start machines. All Digital and Power designs will remain as before."


http://www.boyerbransden.com/faq.html

"How Can I Tell What Ignition System Is Fitted On My Bike?

Look for the colour of the ignition unit and what type of coils you are running:

MKIII and MKIV - ignition boxes are black and run with the original coils or similar replacements
Micro Digital - ignition boxes are red (old style Micro Power ignitions were also red) and run with the original coils or similar replacements
Micro Power - ignition boxes are blue (old style Micro Power ignitions were red) and run with miniature specialist coils
ID units - positive units are red, negative units are black (these systems both have LED's positioned at the top of the unit)"