Pazon and EMI?

Are the Pazon EI subject to EMI from solid core hi-tension leads? I seem to be getting some breakdown with my new Pazon installation, don't remember this with the AAU. I have read that EMI can affect the EI, but Pazon doesn't say anything about it, but then they are dealing mostly with the later ballast and 6V coils, I don't know if Norton went to suppression wires after 1970. I have replaced my 12V coils with new Emgo 6V coils to run in series, wasted spark and I'm probably getting a much hotter spark than before. The hi-tension leads appear OK, but they are 30 years old. I ordered a new set from MAP, but was wondering if I should get the EMI suppression wires? It probably would help eventually because I plan on going to the Sparx hi output kit and they recommend either resistor plugs or suppression wires. Maybe I've answered my own question, but if anyone has had trouble with EMI and the Pazon, I'd like to hear.

I haven't looked at the ignition in the dark, that may answer my question too, it may be the old hi-tension wires are arcing over. Right now I'm soaking my wires with silicon spray to see if that does anything.

Dave
69S

DogT said:

Are the Pazon EI subject to EMI from solid core hi-tension leads?

Click to expand...

Analog/ue ignition systems aren't usually affected.

DogT said:

I don't know if Norton went to suppression wires after 1970.

Click to expand...

Measure the resistance of your leads and/or caps? Original suppression would usually be built into the plug caps as the wires would be copper or steel-not carbon?
I don't know if 1970 leads/caps would have been resistor type originally?

My wires are solid copper core. If the analogue systems aren't affected from EMI, then it's most likely the wires arcing to ground or a wire, I'll check tonight. New wires may help then. If I get the Sparx, I'll just go to resistor plugs.

Dave
69S

On my dear ole Ms Peel with analog Boyer firing though Moss Motors Bumble Bee y/b soild copper HT leads with R plugs and LED signal kit I had no issues at all except for the standard trigger wire and poor advance curve annoyance, UNTIL I had to use NON-R plugs then everything worked as good as ever but the LED signals dramatically improved their attention getting by becoming syncopated accurate plug fire timing lights. Don't know if applies to Sure Fire or not. Copper makes better EMI-RF transmitting antenna that carbon dusted fibers, so may jostle into the trigger leads signal but shouldn't or they should have warning on HT leads.

Even in sensitive digital units they only recommend 5000 ohm resistance via plug leads OR plugs themselves not both. But best bet is switch HT leads and plugs to test, if Pazion or someone here can't tell ya for sure.

Hi Dave,

From the Pazon Installation manual:

"We recommend fitting NGK 5K resistor (suppressor) type plug caps (or
similar good quality make), but you can also fit non-resistor caps."

My Victor, with a Pazon Surefire, ran both ways with no decernable difference. It's been running for the past year with resistive plugs and non-resistive caps and wires; starts easily and runs strong. My Mk3, also with a Surefire, has only run with either resistive caps or resistive plugs, due to the requirement of my SPARX 3-phase regulator/rectifier, which admits to an EMI problem. Again, an easy start, smooth tickover, and as strong a runner as a single Mikuni will allow. There is little risk to keeping 5k-6K of resistance in the HV circuit, either in the cap or using resistive plugs.

Rick

I'm holding out for bad old wires. I'll find out. Anyhow, it's just another of my time tested theories that when you buy an after market 'improvement', you pay for it in extra outlays for things you didn't need before. Not that I didn't need to settle down my wandering AAU, I may still try to work on it, just for drill.

Dave
69S

Ugh, so the HT leads worked fine till you put the Sure Fire on, hm. I'd have
very mixed feeling if Pazion unit had an issue not the wires, sad another owner challenged in manhood and competent installation/overisight, happy it might be evidence I'm not a total incompetent. Hope just wires do it for ya.

I know where you're coming from. I'm assuming that the new coils and brainiac unit is putting out more HV than my old setup and the old HV wires are breaking down. If I have time tonight, I'll kick it over and see the fireworks display, maybe. If not, suspect Pazon, but I haven't had it under load yet, but it sure sounds like ignition breakdown, no constant throttle at any speed, it wanders around, not the timing, the throttle, and sounds like the plugs are not always firing correctly. Doesn't give me confidence to take it down the hill and risk not getting it back, but I can park it in the barn, but it's pretty dusty there and then I have to take all the tools down there. I guess I could put it in the front end loader and bring it up, but risk damaging things.

Is there a serial number on the brains? I didn't look that closely.

My manhood left me when I started taking all these cardio pills.

Dave
69S

Dave,

I've got the Boyer MK3, dual 6 volt coils, copper HT lead, NGK 5K suppressor caps and BP7ES plugs.

Puts out a lovely blue spark.

If you choose not to use suppressor caps, get the Iridium BPR7EIX, the "R" in the BPR indicates a suppressor resistor in the actual plug.

The NGK caps with the suppressors have the white painted logo and the non suppressor/resistor one do not have the white paint.

Champion plugs caps generally have 10K resistors, so I will be trying a resistor NGK 5K and BPR7EIX combination to see how/if that works.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NGK-LBO5F-PL ... 256426395c

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Plug-Cap-NGK ... 2a111c3ca5

I don't know if 1970 leads/caps would have been resistor type originally?

Click to expand...

I don't think it really matters as the bikes did not originally have electronic ignition.

An advantage to having resistor plugs is that when you have issues, which is usually a rooted resistor or the insulation breaking down in the plug, replacing the plug deals with both issues.

Dave,
Its a really good idea to fit new copper core HT leads. One thing that you must take care with is that you get a tight fitting boot to slip over the nose of the coil and that the lead end fits firmly into the coil socket. As an example, a few years ago when checking a Boyer set up in the dark for kick over spark, I noticed transient leakage from the coil socket which was causing random ignition misfiring. One thing that does happen on Commandos is as the motor shakes back n forth, there is tendancy for the HT leads to creep out of the coil sockets, get them in good and tight.

I ordered my Pazon with the recommended NGK 5k resister caps, non-resister plugs, copper HT leads and coil boots to match. No problems.

Mick

You know, now that I think about it, when I put the HT wire in the right side coil, it didn't feel right, and when I pulled it off to inspect the wires, it came out without much resistance. I'm wondering if I just didn't have the HT wire in the coil tight enough. It certainly could raise an issue with the spark not getting to the plug with full voltage or trying to go somewhere else. I'm going to sort it tomorrow, too much partying tonight, luckily 4 to one girls to boys. I'm soaking the wires with silicone insul-grease and I'll leave them tonight and try again tomorrow. But I think a new set of wires would not be bad, they should be here Monday or Tuesday. I'm sure it'll sort.

I should have had some of the party girls posing on the Norton, they were all honeys. Next time I'll have it ready. This could be interesting.

Dave
69S

Oh yes, get them feeling good and confident and warmed up by helping you haul the Commando up to the party and give is a start to get their juices going on compact deep power plant, then say it looks like jewelry to you and wonder how it'd look with a sporting gal wearing it...

Recent research report found gals love to get close to colorful sports cars and motorcycles for fun but not to stay with innately knowing a less risky guy is more secure.

Photo of night time elctrical smoke leaks would be cool if that occurs.

Btw you may want to throw a cover over the ole gal if left in the barn even over night, ugh.

My neighbor and his hot wife came over this morning for a chit-chat and she mentioned how good and heavy the Norton sounds going by.

Woo, Hoo.

Dave
69S

Yep Sir, almost all the Brit Iron sounds bigger than it is, but especially the Norton twins and Commando's most of all yet they don't offend but draw ya in via the gut and chest resonance, if the dang ignition lets em fire evenly...

They can be real chick magnets, if ya can take the kind that they excite...

Well, the Pazon is working fine. Put the HT wires back on siliconed over night, and this time I made sure they were seated in the coil output. Started right up so it must have been breaking down or I didn't have the HT seated, but new wires won't hurt. Went for a 15 mile loop, everything fine, went to shift down to turn into my road, and the shift lever is loose as a goose. No shifting, stuck in 4th. Indicator looks like it went past 4th, but the lever does nothing. Time to pull the cover off and install the new pawl I got. Wonder what this is about. I had to drive through my neighbors yard, I doubted if I would make it up the hill in 4th, it was bad enough on the gravel in 4th, lots of slipping the clutch.

So there ya go.

Dave
69S

LOL till crying in tears Dave, this is exactly how my time with Commandos has been. Fix one thing and before ya know it another show stopper occurs. I appreciate your sense of energy on tap and speed and traction available to decide to risk it or not.
I feel more mature when I cow tow and take slower harder safer decision, but feel more alive trying out limits, usually thrown up so no decision involved. I guess the party was flop on panting fawning women on your Cdo.