P11 wiring, alternator, rectifier, diode, etc

p400 · Aug 2, 2015

I am thinking about installing a Podtronics regulator in this P11, as I have had good performance with Podtronics on early British marques/Alton12v.
It appears the existing Lucas rectifier may have all the connections points to enable an easy install of a regulator.

texasSlick · Aug 2, 2015

The wiring is very similar to my Atlas. I am using a Podtronics as well.

Just connect the GY and WG to the Podtronics Y and Y, the Podtronics R to earth (ground), and the Podtronics B to NW and bin the Lucas rectifier and Zener.

Slick

p400 · Aug 3, 2015

This P11 does not have much space for the Podtronics unit.
Any actual installs on a P11?
Here is a look at the rectifier wires. White/green trace, Green/yellow trace, Brown/white trace, and Red positive ground.
Battery positive ground and main fuse are visible.

texasSlick · Aug 3, 2015

The Podtronics unit is not much larger than the Lucas rectifier, and could, in theory, be mounted in the rectifier's space. Ideally, the Podtronics should be mounted on a flat metal surface that will double as a heat sink, but if this is not possible any place with a little airflow should suffice to keep the Podtronics cool.

I spliced a flat four trailer connector into the wiring harness and it's mate to the Podtronics. With such a splice, and sufficient length of cable, the Podtronics could be mounted almost anywhere some airflow can be found.

Slick

p400 · Aug 4, 2015

texasSlick said:
The Podtronics unit is not much larger than the Lucas rectifier, and could, in theory, be mounted in the rectifier's space. Ideally, the Podtronics should be mounted on a flat metal surface that will double as a heat sink, but if this is not possible any place with a little airflow should suffice to keep the Podtronics cool.
Slick

Thanks Slick, I think you are correct , mounting could be anywhere.
The reason I am concerned about this P11 charging system is the ammeter action with the stock , original system components that seem to be working , but the ammeter swing wildly around as I am going down the road. Like the charging is an off/on switch that doesn't allow the ammeter to show any useful info. Plus this stuff is 45 years old.
when you changed your system to Podtronics, did you notice the ammeter now showing a traceable charge?

If the Podtronics is installed
1) the zener diode, up front/aluminum discs, needs the brown/white wire pulled off but the two brown/white wires connected at this point need to stay connected as is to each other. probably insulated and tucked away.
2) the blue capacitor brown/white wire needs to be disconnected, insulated from grounding, and saved for future use. remove blue capacitor.
3) the rectifier needs to come out and the four connections to POD, rather easy. I think adding male spade connectors to the POD wires would be easiest as this allows quick secure connections to existing wire harness at removed rectifier.

texasSlick · Aug 4, 2015

@P400

My ammeter swings wildly also. Even when new, it would be all over the right side (charging) .... now it is all over both sides. I keep it out of nostalgia. And besides, I would only have to plug the hole with something else .... a voltmeter would give more info but I do not think I can find one to fit the hole. The little three color LED gizmo would be a good alternative .... I am thinking about fitting one myself.

Your altered wiring diagram is exactly as I would do. The spade connectors will do nicely and will keep originality as far as practical. Likewise to disconnecting the Zener but keeping the wires connected ... I would just tuck them into the harness as neatly as possible.

Slick

PS: The Podtronics will not dampen the ammeter's antics ... those 40-50 year old ammeters have been subjected to a lot of vibration ... I would not be surprised if my needle fell off one of these days.

p400 · Aug 5, 2015

I have ordered a Podtronics from Ebay for use on this P11.
Other British bikes with this same Podtronics, in use with an Alton 12v, seem to give the standard , readable +/- on the ammeter.
I am hoping for some readable charging. The ammeter now swings half scale, back and forth....and then after running for about 10 miles, settles back at zero.
Battery stays charged, so the charging appears to a staccato, full charge, on/off.

p400 · Aug 7, 2015

Here is the stock ammeter that I hope will have improved readings with the new POD.
The scale face has rotated to the right in this photo....so you just look at it with your right eye closed.

p400 · Aug 7, 2015

Received new POD1 from racingnorton at Ebay.
disconnected the three wires identified in diagram above.

Loosen single point, 1/4BSF bolt and removed, saved OEM rectifier.

removed and saved OEM blue capacitor as well.

p400 · Aug 7, 2015

Mounted the new Podtronics 120W regulator using existing single point mount, wires up . Trimmed wires , added male connectors....plugged wires in as per diagram above.

checked cover fit before finalizing job, everything fits under cover with room.

elefantrider · Aug 8, 2015

Will be interesting to hear if that solves your charging problems. I have not noticed any gauge or charging problems with my original setup. If your battery goes dead, will you still be able to start it now that the capacitor has been removed?

Bernhard · Aug 10, 2015

elefantrider said:
Will be interesting to hear if that solves your charging problems. I have not noticed any gauge or charging problems with my original setup. If your battery goes dead, will you still be able to start it now that the capacitor has been removed?

If the Capacitor goes dead or removed-the answer is of course-you won't.

p400 · Aug 10, 2015

Riding P11 yesterday, did about 50 miles, stopped for lunch, restarted, but P11 quit after about 1 mile.
No lights, seemed battery dead...............
Since I had just put a new Podtronic on this bike, I thought I knew the problem.
After opening the headlight bucket to inspect I found that the left wire lead had come off due to the ammeter nut dropping off.
Not sure what the total damage is , if any.
nut was lying in the bucket bottom.

texasSlick · Aug 10, 2015

p400 said:
Riding P11 yesterday, did about 50 miles, stopped for lunch, restarted, but P11 quit after about 1 mile.
No lights, seemed battery dead...............
Since I had just put a new Podtronic on this bike, I thought I knew the problem.
After opening the headlight bucket to inspect I found that the left wire lead had come off due to the ammeter nut dropping off.
Not sure what the total damage is , if any.
nut was lying in the bucket bottom.

Aside from running down the battery, I can't see how you hurt anything.

So.... did the Podtronics take out the wild ammeter swings during the first 50 miles? Did you keep or bin the capacitor?

Slick

p400 · Aug 10, 2015

texasSlick said:
Aside from running down the battery, I can't see how you hurt anything.
So.... did the Podtronics take out the wild ammeter swings during the first 50 miles?
Did you keep or bin the capacitor?
Slick

Well, I think the swinging ammeter simply got a wider swinging path, but the loose wire may have given a bad performance.
Blue capacitor was removed and set aside, wires taped up.
Replaced the main and only glass tube 35 amp fuse with a new style ATM mini fuse block/30 amp.
Added a lock washer to the ammeter wire stud.
2011 battery 12N9-B4-1 is looking kinda sad.
Added a TTO temp gage to the right side spark plug. difficult to do with a Norton head. may not work.
Installed 1971-74 Husqvarna motocross handle bars - high cross bar - 37 inch span.
readjusted the valves, right intake too tight.

Deets55 · Aug 10, 2015

Replaced the main and only glass tube 35 amp fuse with a new style ATM mini fuse block/30 amp.

Something to think about

L.A.B. said:
Mike T said:

are 20W fuses the same in the USA as in the UK?

Wasn't sure if they might be rated differently??

Click to expand...

The original handbook "35A" fuse recommendation refers to the old Lucas system of rating fuses by the 'blow' amps.

Modern fuses are numbered using the continuous rating, so 35A blow = 17A continuous. Unless you use the old Lucas style 1.25"/30mm glass 35A fuses which are still available, then the nearest modern equivalent is either 15A or 20A.

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/V ... /fuses.php

texasSlick · Aug 11, 2015

Re: Fuses

FWIW ... engineers (US) use the following formula to determine fuse rating.

A is max continuous amps. Then calculate 1.25 x A and if this number is not a standard fuse rating, use the next higher standard rating, but do not exceed 1.75 X A. No one ever told me what to do if there was no standard rating between 1.25 and 1.75

Slick

p400 · Aug 11, 2015

Deets55 said:
Replaced the main and only glass tube 35 amp fuse with a new style ATM mini fuse block/30 amp.
Something to think about
http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/V ... /fuses.php

Thanks Guys, I will look into a smaller fuse than 30A.....seemed too high a rating as it is.
I see some discussion on Brit car forums as well, on this Amp issue.
My daily ride was 40 miles to lunch , 40 miles home.....electrics worked fine. No residual effects from wire dropping off. Ammeter stills flails around with little usable info other than it goes the correct direction when it kicks in.
Motocross handlebars are working fantastic, much better than the tucked away stock bars.
TTO Temp seems to be working just fine on the right 14mm spark plug. I have TTO zip tied to the cross bar.
Carried rain gear today, but not much rain yet.

kmr5372 · Oct 13, 2015

hi
does anybody out there design wiring diagrams at a reasonable price ?
I have a 1964 atlas and was thinking of putting an electronic ignition and alton electric starter on it, the wiring loom is fairly bad so I was thinking of starting from scratch,

P11 wiring, alternator, rectifier, diode, etc

p400

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