Oiling before starting every time

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Brooking 850 said:
Using a good oil that doesnt leave everything dry helps +1 on wet sumping and a good reed Vv breather to get all back to tank after the first couple of rotations.

http://www.drivenracingoil.com/dro/hd50-synthetic-15w-246html/
Click to expand...

Cold starts are the hardest thing (other than overrevving) on any engine, which is why I use synthetic oil in all my vehicles. synthetics have superior cold-start wear protection and most have better additive packages than conventional oil to stretch the change interval.
 
Preoilers are common on radial engine aircraft that don't fly regularly.

Cam and lifter wear is a problem especially with Lycoming flat engines as the cam is located at the very top of the engine as opposed to a Continental where it's located under the crank and gets oil dripped on it as soon as the engine turns. A preoiler in a Continental will definitely oil the cam but not so in a Lycoming.

This is what some consider the cure: https://aslcamguard.com/
I don't know if it really is or aircraft owners try to fly more after paying for a very expensive repair.

It seems to me that even my MKIII will wet sump enough after a long lay off that there's probably enough splash to help alleviate start up wear.

Having said that, I'm going to take a dial indicator to mine this winter to see if it has the soft cam apparently afflicting many MKIIIs.
 
I would (do) pre-oil a newly rebuilt engine undergoing its first start; otherwise, no.
 
If you kick over the engine without the key on for enough turns to get oil to the top, how is this significantly different than the same number of turns when initially started????
 
Well, the difference seems kind of obvious to me, but I suppose as usual, ignorance is bliss.
 
Not a very helpful response p_g why insult someone for asking a question. By the way Happy New Year to one & all...
 
No, probably not, but for the record the ignorance part I was directing at me. My original post in this thread was meant to be a question to Hobot as to what he meant by pre-oiling
 
I'm thinking turning it over slowly gets oil spread around before stuff starts happening for real, making for more initial wear and tear. Also limbers up my leg. Can't do any harm and just makes sense if it hasn't been run for a while - if only to me.
 
I guess the main difference between rolling it over with the kicker vs running would be the effects of the heat of combustion. Perhaps more potentially damaging for bores and upper valve gear than the lower end stuff.
One other difference is the amount of heat from friction when kicking ( intermittent 200 rpm?) Vs running at maybe 1500- 2000 hi idle.
The good news is that things seem to stay coated in oil for a long time.
I just pulled an engine apart that had not run in 3 months. Everything that mattered was coated in a nice layer of oil.
So while there might be some advantage to setting up a pre-oil system, I'm not going to worry about it.
Instead I'll try my best to wear out at least one of these old bikes. At maybe 10,000 miles per year combined total mileage, it could take awhile!:)

Glen
 
A preoiler is generally an electric pump that takes from the sump and pressurizes the main oil galley thus insuring a film is present before start. Not practical as a permanent installation in a motorcycle as it is in an aircraft or other large machine but an external one could be used.

Initial start on a new engine should be protected by assembly lube; I really don't think needed for subsequent starts except after a long storage. Our engines will generally wet sump ensuring some oil will splash around on first kick.

Cylinders will rust but the lower end generally has a coat of varnish and oil. Cam and tappets can take a beating at start until well oiled.
 
It is easy enough to set up an engine to preoil, the pump and even the oil would be remote. A minute or two would do it.
We need to have somebody do a bench test...:-)
 
There is no indication in nearly 50 years of operation that these engines would benefit in any way with pre-oiling. Where has there been a documented failure caused by lack of oil on startup on a properly functioning engine? Certainly, pre-oiling can't hurt anything but since there is no oiling problem in the first place, why bother?
 
Absolutely worse thing to do is turn over w/o oil pressure to surf on oil wedge ~2000 rpm, similar to womanly-timid slow idle to warm up instead of instant 2000 rpm cam break in zone with blips above that till oil pressure good. Takes ~ 30 sec at well over 2000 rpm to get oil pressure showing at head but head don't need oil till hot enough springs need cooling. Watch real antique Manx restorers start up - blipping hi rpms for like 10 min before letting idle and getting on with the show.

Sad tales exist of owners unable to ride a few or more seasons, so started to run a few moments then shut down occcassionally before full over boiling temp reached to activate Zn nano pads depositing of ZDDP to later find when able to ride again - a ruined ring sealing smoking worn cam contacts clunker. Same sad tales of those kicking/turning over a new build till oil flowed from pump, instead of just rev up soon as takes throttle to stay over 2000 and see oil return to tank ~30 sec later and smokeless dry ring install in 45ish sec.

At least elitist snob but notice worthy lugwig showed how to prolong cam life by re-creating a lost cam oil tub. Not an option to less note worthy owners.

Btw takes over boiling local surface temps to activate depositing ZDDP nano pod layer, so thin can only protect a few instants of low oil pressure like on starts if not lingering too slow to wipe off protection before oil surfing occurs. Womanly baby burping tenderness of slow warm up idle on initial starts is pussy whipped emotional based not reality.

Before all's ya all's default to nasty bickering on barely detectable issue Peel will have 100 PSI air to dump into spine tank if I plumb into threaded bung welded in spinal tube butt plate, where ole lugwid obscenely shoves his stiff tent poles into. Happier next years winter traditional oil threads.
 
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Just winter oil thread that crossed my mind I thought might be interesting to get views and ways to do it. Would not be that hard to do on Peel OIF, just attach air hose to male bung sticking out low end of spinal tank with a valve to dump 100 PSI air from swingarm tank for a few seconds to get journals and head oil flow going. Off the shelf pre-oiller usually are a cylinder canister with valve to open and charge with running oil pressure then close to trap under pressure to release for next start. As its mainly the cam contacts that suffer most I'm in the camp that thinks/wants some adequate wet sump as a good thing.
 
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