Oil pump studs

hobot said:

I agree, leave em as proper torque for the oil pump nuts on studs, that is - above the too low manual listed levels. Lots of others including me go as high as you no problemo and less chane of working loose.
oil-pump-worm-gear-and-camshaft-nut-torque-settings-t10765.html

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Yes - thanks, that was the info I was looking for :!: ! All I asked here in my country told me, they did it without torque wrench. But I became careful when I saw the short threads.

Well you may soon be able to tell if we mis led you to just go by experienced sense of the material and the amount and size of threads engaged vs the loads expected. I grit teeth on the last UmphF of each engine component and tranny fastener a bit past listed levels and learned this from my decades seasoned Commando buddy and mine too timid attempts not sealing too soon nor staying put. Besides ya do want to know if its a weak spot before riding off to find out tater. Axle, sprocket nut and clutch nut only need like 2/3's listed values. Manual says every 5000 miles open TS to check chain - wonder how often that gets paid much attention. I gave up T-wrench but do measure rod bolt and crank bolt stretch, the rest is done by gosh by golly.

hobot said:

Well you may soon be able to tell if we mis led you to just go by experienced sense of the material and the amount and size of threads engaged vs the loads expected.

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Well, concerning the threads, 10/12 ft.lb would be the better option. But on the other hand you want to get the pump as tight as possible. 15 ft.lb seems to be too much for me, so I choosed 13.3..
So it is 1.3 more than stated in the manual. The helicoils and Loctite help a bit for the short threads. After all I think 12 ft.lb is the better choise. But the difference of 1.3 is not that much to take it
apart again, concerning the fact that a lot of guys took 15ft.lb without problems.
And maybe it got seated after the first warming-up and the tension decreases a bit anyway.

Ralf

This all assumes your torque wrench is calibrated and certified on a regular basis.

Just like mine are not :shock:

If you are using a 75-100 ft-lb torque wrench you would be lucky to be within 15-20% at the low end of the scale. Don't lose any sleep over this.

Russ

FWIW, an inch pound wrench is more applicable with low foot pound numbers, particularly when dealing with soft alloys and an indespensable tool for motorcycles. Timing cover screws come to mind and many others.

Ok, I have a torque wrench from Hazet (5-60NM ~ 4-44 ft.lb) with 3/8" square, which is workshop quality, that should not be the problem. It is very important to use good quality torque wrenches particularly for small threads. Otherwise you can better leave it.

Ralf its been a few yrs since last I diddled an oil pump so likely your gut feeling compromise lands about spot on, allowing of course for fudge factors in the scale range of the wrench and its calibration and the condions of the threads, ambient temps and moon phase on interface adhesion. For those that care, stretch tension per dia of fastener is the end result we are after, so turn till lightly but definitively seated, then turn another 1/4 to 1/2 according to the thread pitch per inch count. In some cases there is a thin gasket behind pump, which in 2 Combats got so so thinned I thought it was only a sealing stain as finger drag could not detect an edge but a razor scrapper did, If ya ever in there again, do check and let us know how well the set torque stayed set.

hobot said:

If ya ever in there again, do check and let us know how well the set torque stayed set.

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Don't know when I finished the next 5000 miles or maybe 7000 miles until it needs to be opened.... My Triumph is a nice bike too, which needs to be ridden.

Also I use proper bolts for this application, eliminating the studs. They have never backed off or given grief to this helicoiled area of concern. Blue loctight if I recall too.

I suspect like me and me buddy Wesly, most of us plus those before us, don't ever look in except for some other reason and when we have the chain seems still within tolerable tension. But hey most didn't use a torque wrench so your call on how lucky ya feel.

I haven't been so anal either since a stud of the valve cover comes out recently. I thought, I was always careful, but on small threads in aluminium castings the feeling in your hands can be wrong. Normally you say, tight is tight. But if you have a paper gasket as well (like under my oil pump or the valve covers) you can turn and turn and you don't really feel the point when it gets tight.
OK - maybe the thread already had a crack for a longer time. You never know what happened in all these years. Maybe one of the PO overtighened it once or more often. But you want to be sure that you are not the one who.

Well don't ya know we have all been caught out by hidden fastener weaknesses. If you have doubts about how many threads engaged a t-wrench won't help that. Still I can not fault trying to be objective - just too often things just loosen up on my Commandos just going by the book - while others I came to realize were too darn tight. I'm pensive of the torque's my special will get so about every alloy hole is Timserted. Only way to deal properly with the crush factor is repeated loosening then re-torque, till stays put or sealed. Personally I find Commando's such an elastic engine I tend to over tighten so the expected crush relieves closer to listed values.

One example that drove me nuts was after putting so much twist on flywheel nuts the wrench jaw broke off on loctited 850 stud, so thought quite enough, yet on a tear down soon after d/t bad rod bolt I found most had backed off to little twist needed to remove. ugh. I had done the rod bolt by stretch measure .0065" but corrosion across metal grain interfaces reached half way and broke. I measured torque as I went up in steps so 28 lb ft showed at the end which is close enough to listed 25 lb ft its a good compromise. One of the more dramatic racer blow ups posted here by seasoned builder - was traced to same insidious corrosion fault evidence I found. I'm not sure how to get crank nuts to hold better, loctite don't seem to work in our engines so lock tabs and safety wire may be tried next time. next time, ugh.

hobot said:

... next time. next time, ugh.

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That's the point, I believe I never get ready with my Commando ...