OHIO RIVER !!

Not having a clue about ships or ships navigation
I'm finding it hard to understand if there was an electronic or mechanical failure is there no manual override the crew can use ?

The talk now is possible contaminated fuel.

texasSlick said:

Accident or deliberate? I do not know, or have any opinion given what we know at this time.
But this I am sure of, ...... if any Intel agency of the US Govt has evidence that this was NO ACCIDENT, such evidence will be buried deeper than that which was buried showing Lee Harvey Oswald did not act alone.

Slick

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One of my coworkers was Merchant Marine for 25 plus years. I asked his opinion and he said from all he watched, the crew and pilots did everything correctly9or at least by the book) BUT!! His thoughts-ship lost electric power, this does not shut down engine but you loose steering ability-emergency generator did not kick in in time-after loss of steering pilot calls for full astern on screw-this involves shutting down the 2 stroke diesel and starting rotation in the other direction (Google marine diesel for the different grades of fuel used for starting, maneuvering and ocean going fuels) hence the plumes of black smoke before the collision. Reversing direction of the screw so quickly will cause it to cavitate, and much like an airplane prop will cause a plane to yaw in direction of rotation, so the stern of the ship now moves in a direction that points the bow right at bridge pier. No rudder control to compensate for yaw and no bow thrusters due to loss of electrics.- Anchors are dropped but ineffective at this point. His conclusions-when he sailed both the emergency generator and steering gear stations were manned during maneuvers in case of such incidents-the pilots did everything by the book but it was a case of too little too late. The fact that they had time to radio a mayday and get traffic stopped before they hit says this was an incident more than a few minutes in the making. His educated guess...if the pilots had not reversed engine or dropped anchors there was a decent chance the ship would have continued on course through the bridge pilings , possibly making a glancing blow rather than head on, and running aground beyond the bridge depending on currents. His conclusion the ship he sailed was slightly smaller with bow thrusters but they always had two tugboats escorting them in such situations.

I found this interesting, for those interested.

When I was a boy (1950s), the ship The Island Mail ran aground on an uncharted rock in Puget Sound just inside the Straits of Juan de Fuca. According to my father who was the insurance underwriter and had to visit the stricken vessel, the rock was common knowledge to harbor pilots. They came aboard at Port Angeles. The pilot (who shall remain nameless as I know his grand niece) in this case knew or should have known the location of the rock. I don't know or recall if he was censured in any way.

Decades later, after the city fathers had been arguing about as long over the need for a new high-level bridge over the Duamish River (functionally similar to the Ohio in the Baltimore case), the same pilot was in the wheelhouse of a ship that struck the pier on which was mounted the turntable for the movable span of the Spokane Street bridge. The strike knocked the pier just enough so the span could be swung only with great difficulty. The ships master was known to have a drinking problem and the pilot was IIRC by then 89 years old. He retired immediately afterwards. His niece pled no comment when I asked her about it at the time.

The city council finally relented and approved the bonds to build a new bridge but only on the cheap.
Three decades later that bridge was closed for more than two years while repairs were made to steel-reinforced concrete that hadn't been properly sealed during construction. There was litigation in all three cases. There will be litigation in Baltimore. There will be a new bridge in Baltimore.

Will they finally require tugs in Baltimore? There is a great movie, "Tug Boat Annie" (Annie Foss) starring Marjorie Main, made in 1933 about the rescue of a passenger liner from the Straits of Juan de Fuca. The tug used in the movie was the Aurthur Foss, a coal-burning steamer. With the proceeds from the movie rental Foss repowered the tug with a diesel making it one of the most powerful ocean-going tugs on the West coast. In 1941 it narrowly escaped being bombed by the Japanese near Midway Is. after towing a floating dry dock from San Francisco to Hawaii, then fuel and supply barges on to Midway. There is a long Wikipedia article about the Aurthur Foss. These tugs earn their keep or did in the day when economics allowed it. BTW the Aurthur Foss still sits on Lake Union in Seattle and last I knew was still operable.

baz said:

Not having a clue about ships or ships navigation
I'm finding it hard to understand if there was an electronic or mechanical failure is there no manual override the crew can use ?

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So much bullshit being spewed by the media.

It might be a good idea to sit quietly until we actually get the accident report. None of us knows exactly how it all happened
so it is just endless supposition. How about the ship hit the bridge, it is now down blocking commerce and maybe it would
be a good idea to clear the channel right sharpish and limit the economic damage.
As with any big accident it is a concatenation of events not just Pilot Bob asleep at the wheel.
...and don't forget how often we are told if the Titanic just plowed head on into the berg it is likely most of the people would
have been saved. Well it didn't and neither did the container ship miss the pylons.
I'll go with Sam Clemens: " One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.”

Onder said:

It might be a good idea to sit quietly until we actually get the accident report. None of us knows exactly how it all happened
so it is just endless supposition. How about the ship hit the bridge, it is now down blocking commerce and maybe it would
be a good idea to clear the channel right sharpish and limit the economic damage.
As with any big accident it is a concatenation of events not just Pilot Bob asleep at the wheel.
...and don't forget how often we are told if the Titanic just plowed head on into the berg it is likely most of the people would
have been saved. Well it didn't and neither did the container ship miss the pylons.
I'll go with Sam Clemens: " One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.”

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We get damn little info here, and much of it is inaccurate.


For instance, the article below, regarding the huge plume of black smoke mentions "it could have come from the generator"
Nope.
The sheer VOLUME of smoke filling the sky tells us that was the main engine.
So, that makes their credibility shite. (To me)

"The News" is just a hollow joke. Hardly a new thought to anyone. Reporters are now just babbling kids with no clue.
We must await either an insider spilling the beans or have some hope that the feds at least take a stab at a real investigation.

Timeline of events from the Baltimore Sun this morning.

The tug boats left too soon.

Also....
I came across a portrait of the modern day mainstream broadcast network teleprompter reading talking head.
You know, the ones that claim to be hard working investigative journalists. Those "wanna' be an actor" types who actually spend their time in wardrobe, makeup, and on the plastic surgeons table while their minimum wage college kid staff surf the various social media platforms looking for their specified brand of "journalism" to report as fact based researched confirmed truthful information.

Lineslinger said:

Timeline of events from the Baltimore Sun this morning.

MSN

The tug boats left too soon.

Also....
I came across a portrait of the modern day mainstream broadcast network teleprompter reading talking head.
You know, the ones that claim to be hard working investigative journalists. Those "wanna' be an actor" types who actually spend their time in wardrobe, makeup, and on the plastic surgeons table while their minimum wage college kid staff surf the various social media platforms looking for their specified brand of "journalism" to report as fact based researched confirmed truthful information.

View attachment 113378

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Tugboat people report at 8 knots, they can barely keep up, never mind apply any lateral force.

Like most disasters, many contributing factors.

Onder said:

It might be a good idea to sit quietly until we actually get the accident report. None of us knows exactly how it all happened
so it is just endless supposition. How about the ship hit the bridge, it is now down blocking commerce and maybe it would
be a good idea to clear the channel right sharpish and limit the economic damage.
As with any big accident it is a concatenation of events not just Pilot Bob asleep at the wheel.
...and don't forget how often we are told if the Titanic just plowed head on into the berg it is likely most of the people would
have been saved. Well it didn't and neither did the container ship miss the pylons.
I'll go with Sam Clemens: " One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.”

Click to expand...

Really not interested in sitting quietly.
Thirsty for knowledge.

This could possibly be an attack on our infrastructure.

concours said:

This could possibly be an attack on our infrastructure.

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Or it could be an accident

and it's not the OHIO RIVER

TomU said:

Or it could be an accident

and it's not the OHIO RIVER

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The Key Bridge incident was posted later in the thread.
Accident? Maybe, maybe not. That's what investigators will determine.

The OP's opening post/observation noted a barge accident that DID occur on the OHIO RIVER just north of Louisville. Reading the thread in it's entirety lends itself to fully engaging in the conversation rather snarking in late with misinformation.

TomU said:

Or it could be an accident

and it's not the OHIO RIVER

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No shit. I chose to ADD to this existing thread, regarding marine disaster. Try to follow along.

Onder said:

"The News" is just a hollow joke. Hardly a new thought to anyone. Reporters are now just babbling kids with no clue.
We must await either an insider spilling the beans or have some hope that the feds at least take a stab at a real investigation.

Click to expand...

An inside might spill the beans but would then be so overcome with emotion that he offs himself.

concours said:

No shit. I chose to ADD to this existing thread, regarding marine disaster. Try to follow along.

Click to expand...

I really hope the Secretary of Transportation "Pothole Pete Bootyfudge" isn't following this thread. The Lord only knows where he might be right now?

Pothole is still looking for a train wreck.