Unfortunately I'll have to disagree on you. I don't need to look at a magazine pix. I had the red manxman seat in my hands, took measurements and then a pix of THE seat, which is in my files. The pix of the seat includes a tape measure laid on it to show what I have said in text. We studied the difference between his seat and my regular atlas seats at great length. For comparison...I own 4 atlas'. The fender dzus hole position was also determined and measured as part of the investigation. The manxman seat is back in posession of the owner of the manxman that is currently a few feet away from me in the shop where I personally am doing mechanical service work on it. The owner took the seat back home since I don't need it cluttering up my shop.