Norton Dragster and roadracer build eh!

Hello again. Just finished first rod set and put together second set of crank cases for welding, I installed old bearings and a crank and fully bolted cases together to help warpage when being welded, I hope this will help somewhat, Matched rod caps with rods and polished everything I could reach, It's coming slowly, It's an economy build so I figure I need at least two engines , no Maney cases or crank, but I will have a Maney outrigger bearing, and a home made one. Cheers.
Stu

skydt said:

I have an 1974 interstate 850 among others that is my regular ride and test bed, and have fitted a copy of the keith 1069 head steady 1/2" ball joints what a difference it made! So I made one for the front too have not ridden it with this mod yet.

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Would like to see pics of the 1/2 ball joints. Can't be much room under there for those.

swooshdave said:

skydt said:

I have an 1974 interstate 850 among others that is my regular ride and test bed, and have fitted a copy of the keith 1069 head steady 1/2" ball joints what a difference it made! So I made one for the front too have not ridden it with this mod yet.

Click to expand...

Would like to see pics of the 1/2 ball joints. Can't be much room under there for those.

Click to expand...

Will get some up of the 1/2" jobbies shortly, have to dig the bike out of the shed mate.

swooshdave said:

skydt said:

I have an 1974 interstate 850 among others that is my regular ride and test bed, and have fitted a copy of the keith 1069 head steady 1/2" ball joints what a difference it made! So I made one for the front too have not ridden it with this mod yet.

Click to expand...

Would like to see pics of the 1/2 ball joints. Can't be much room under there for those.

Click to expand...

SwooshDave. Here's a couple of shots of the 1/2" spherical ended head steady, I have lots of room for any type petrol tank underneath, I am presently running a fiberglass interstate tank with all kinds of room underneath. I have a regular and a large set of alloy roadrace tanks Norvil type but have not mounted these yet but don't forsee any problems, bought these ends from the local Princess auto store about $20.00 each, and just carved a peice of angle iron to suit. Coco will get me some alluminium angle soon for my next set, Couple of extra photos of the carb setup on this 850, 34mm mics, dual oil filters, and homemade oil lines to head, and 1986 gsxr front disk. It has some other bits and bobs on it I can't remember right now, used to have a Norvil head steady on it pictured but I had a devil of a time setting it up correctly, I will have another go on one of these builds shortly. Cheers.

Stu

skydt said:

swooshdave said:

skydt said:

I have an 1974 interstate 850 among others that is my regular ride and test bed, and have fitted a copy of the keith 1069 head steady 1/2" ball joints what a difference it made! So I made one for the front too have not ridden it with this mod yet.

Click to expand...

Would like to see pics of the 1/2 ball joints. Can't be much room under there for those.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Wow. Doesn't look like there is any room for that thing to move. Well, at least no one will be whining that it's not stout enough! :shock:

Stu

You should put the .090" radius on the crank PTO stub as per the race manual - or its the first place the crank will fail.

Jim

Hi Jim, could explain more about that PTO stub , my english is weak on those words , though I have your manual, do you mean inside the crank in the timing part of that crank where the oil gallery after making a 90 ° way , meet the ....., I remenber one old english fellow '( BDM, talking us about that tool used at the factory while grinding inside that crank part and thus making a sharp angle prone to fracture , is that what you are talking to us ?????????? the curious frog..

jseng1 said:

Stu

You should put the .090" radius on the crank PTO stub as per the race manual - or its the first place the crank will fail.

Jim

Click to expand...

Jim mate.
I did that already on both cranks, I followed the manual pretty close on the crank stuff, they are drilled for 3/8" bolts and I installed ARP nuts and Nord-lock lock washers under them too just in case, I appreciate you watching over me, I'm not 16 anymore and the memory aint what it should be. Here's some pics of the first crank i did. Undrneath the black tape is a nicely polished radius. Cheers.

Stu

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Hello again, Just an update and a slight change of direction, I may have lost this one to my son but I have spares to build another, I had an RF 600 front end and rear end, which we made to fit the Norton frame, My son Allan thought it would look cool with 17" mags and tyres on it, so here it is . What do you folks think? I have only built stock looking stuff in the past so this is quite an adventure for me. The roadracer dragster projects are still ongoing although rather slowly. Cheers.

Stuart



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My son Allan testing the seat.










Much bracing and welding left to do but it's coming.

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Cool build! It will be interesting to see how such a large rear tire is dealt with by the rear isolastics which may be a bit overwhelmed by the leverage you get cornering with such a big chunk of rubber. Maybe a rod end under the rear cradle to eliminate side flex would be helpful.

Impressive build to behold Skydt.

Dumping clutch on take off will send front skyward not forward.
Really consider lowing the front a couple inches or so. Then
should just spin rear or float level as it leaps forward only tapping
front down an instant on kill button WOT shifts.

The other weak place in cases is between the rear barrel
bolt and the one just behind-below that.
Racers weld a plate to straddle between each case bosses.
It gave me a place to drill for 11th though bolt and no oil weep.

I made 1st rod link top steady and reported no vibration then
Taylor and the rest have improved on my crude one. As much as
it helps - its the least helpful link, most helpful is a front link and last
but most helpful by far is a low rear linkage -ala Bob Patton's lead.
Center stand would foul it but a dragster ain't got that worry.

17" wheels may look the part but think you'll find them heavier
and less helpful if cornering is the aim. But then again
17" tire come Z rated if you plan to sustain over 150 mph.

Cast iron flywheels are know hazard to spin up.
Might consider cryogenic tempering of that item.
Costs more to ship than treat it so find closest place.

hobot

Doug MacRae said:

Cool build! It will be interesting to see how such a large rear tire is dealt with by the rear isolastics which may be a bit overwhelmed by the leverage you get cornering with such a big chunk of rubber. Maybe a rod end under the rear cradle to eliminate side flex would be helpful.

Click to expand...

It's an idea I have played with for some time Doug, I had built and positioned an Isolastic under the cradle, It' s in previous posts, but it was intended for 18" wheels and tyres, I may just go ahead and copy a spherical ended arrangement for this setup, Thank you for your input.

Stuart

hobot said:

Impressive build to behold Skydt.

Dumping clutch on take off will send front skyward not forward.
Really consider lowing the front a couple inches or so. Then
should just spin rear or float level as it leaps forward only tapping
front down an instant on kill button WOT shifts.

The other weak place in cases is between the rear barrel
bolt and the one just behind-below that.
Racers weld a plate to straddle between each case bosses.
It gave me a place to drill for 11th though bolt and no oil weep.

I made 1st rod link top steady and reported no vibration then
Taylor and the rest have improved on my crude one. As much as
it helps - its the least helpful link, most helpful is a front link and last
but most helpful by far is a low rear linkage -ala Bob Patton's lead.
Center stand would foul it but a dragster ain't got that worry.

17" wheels may look the part but think you'll find them heavier
and less helpful if cornering is the aim. But then again
17" tire come Z rated if you plan to sustain over 150 mph.

Cast iron flywheels are know hazard to spin up.
Might consider cryogenic tempering of that item.
Costs more to ship than treat it so find closest place.

hobot

Click to expand...

Hobot. Never thought of dropping the front end! Will seriously consider that, easy to do I think.

The cases are not finished yet, I have two setup sets waiting to go to the welders, to be finished as per the Ken Kanaga postings, I visited Ken recently and saw a set of cases ready for paint on the bench with all the mods and a short stroke crank very impressive. I believe I have seen a photo of your case mod.

I Will also install a front link 3/8" which I have tested on my 74 850, whichever way I adjusted it it gives a very light buzz.

The 17" wheels were my sons thought, some talk with Ken leads me to believe also that they are not such a good choice, but I have another setup ready to go which will utilise the 18" wheels and race tyres I have, the look was what my son wanted and I agreed!

I have researched the cryo route and from here it costs a fortune to ship to the closest shop, I have two setups that need doing so it aint gona be cheap! I live in Regina Saskatchewan Canada right in the lower middle so were miles away from anywhere, but it will get done.

Thank you for the input, I have recieved tons of advice and support for this project through this site, and its members and am very grateful for such, Cheers.

Stuart

Stuart,

I wish I knew more about race events you're working up for.

It easy and practical to just strap-bungee the forks down.
MX Hole Shot Devices are just straps that un hook on
braking for first corner. Also Sport Bike mags, have
tied down forks on show room bikes to get significant ET
gains over stock height.

There is a great and long review of crank shafts-cases and Norton
dragster findings on Capt. Nortons archival site. Here's old Peel's
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1039491 ... 1179HLvqYu


My First ever cycle was a discarded P!! dedicated dragster
handed down to an 18 yr old with a Kiwi 750 triple 2 smoke.
Won its class in '68-69, but was dropped at end of a run
so pilot quit it.

Double takes on first sight as the English 10 speed bicycle
leaning next to it on wall seemed to over whelm the Norton
in size and mass!!!! It was made to run 4" slick but
had street tire fitted and head and tail lamps. Open pipes.
Frame extended 1" forks shorted 1", for 2" low stance.
Would not wheelie by accident, leaped or smoked, your
choice. Requred over 40 mph and rev up clutch drop
to wheelie beyond just floating level. Engine completely
safety wired and reviewing with old racers it might have
been a Woods-Axtel unit as I could flat run away from
those stinking 2 smoke triples. I was 20 then.

Better study how to hold tire on too, P!! had 3 clamps.
Proper pressure too as hitting power band with front floating
or 45' can fold tyre up and flop to side, which gives cog wheel
like hook up traction > for instant vertical stance then a throw down sideways.
Here I am just prior to past lights and tear off R knee.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1096810 ... 1179TFSKKl


Not a bad idea to duct tape major joints and get a neck
collar pressing luck. Fractured joints are one thing
but fractured and dislocated scattered is whole level meaner.
Get or make gloves with extra palm padding.

hobot

Gday Hobot,
good pics of your strenghtend Combats cases and mods in the link. Just wondering if there was much destortion in welding and also maybe just a brace bolted on the lift side would suffice?
Rgds Foxy

OH *&)*&%&^%)*(&_*_&*)(Y_&_*)W{!!!~~$@#^()&&&%&&****XX#*??<<>>>
Foxy, we try to put very painful events out of mind or at least
to blur over what it took to get by.

These cases also had cob web fine cracks developing in the
sharp corners of milled case flats. It took the Eagle
Eyes of DynoDave to see these, but welder showed
me others hidden below surface. Cases had barrel
attached and I used propane room heater to keep it
all above frying temp while welding. I ground them
all out and welder melted way deeper yet, its tough
to watch unless you pretend its not yours.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2218404 ... 1179VZXufF


It distorted Badly, whole seam ripples but especally the
weep are behind barrel, opened to like 0.10".
It took me week end to week end many hours a night
and most of all weekends Beating and Beating and Bashing
and Pounding on the welds to finally get .03" at worse
and sealed fine even on over rev. Used welders slag
hammer mostly, which makes the Al look like chewing
gum tooth picks shot gunned into surface 1/16" deep.
Removing metal to remove these pecker holes was 2nd
only to the Beating and Bashing and Banging >>>

hobot

hobot said:

Stuart,

I wish I knew more about race events you're working up for.

It easy and practical to just strap-bungee the forks down.
MX Hole Shot Devices are just straps that un hook on
braking for first corner. Also Sport Bike mags, have
tied down forks on show room bikes to get significant ET
gains over stock height.

There is a great and long review of crank shafts-cases and Norton
dragster findings on Capt. Nortons archival site. Here's old Peel's
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1039491 ... 1179HLvqYu

My First ever cycle was a discarded P!! dedicated dragster
handed down to an 18 yr old with a Kiwi 750 triple 2 smoke.
Won its class in '68-69, but was dropped at end of a run
so pilot quit it.

Double takes on first sight as the English 10 speed bicycle
leaning next to it on wall seemed to over whelm the Norton
in size and mass!!!! It was made to run 4" slick but
had street tire fitted and head and tail lamps. Open pipes.
Frame extended 1" forks shorted 1", for 2" low stance.
Would not wheelie by accident, leaped or smoked, your
choice. Requred over 40 mph and rev up clutch drop
to wheelie beyond just floating level. Engine completely
safety wired and reviewing with old racers it might have
been a Woods-Axtel unit as I could flat run away from
those stinking 2 smoke triples. I was 20 then.

Better study how to hold tire on too, P!! had 3 clamps.
Proper pressure too as hitting power band with front floating
or 45' can fold tyre up and flop to side, which gives cog wheel
like hook up traction > for instant vertical stance then a throw down sideways.
Here I am just prior to past lights and tear off R knee.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1096810 ... 1179TFSKKl

Not a bad idea to duct tape major joints and get a neck
collar pressing luck. Fractured joints are one thing
but fractured and dislocated scattered is whole level meaner.
Get or make gloves with extra palm padding.

hobot

Click to expand...

Hobot.
I'm building two chassis the one pictured was originaly for roadracing and I have another ex chopper frame I salvaged from the dump to be hardtailed for drag racing localy, the roadracer has taken a turn in the wheel dept but not irreversable, the dragster frame is slated to get done as per" BNK hardtailing a norton" on Utube in a week or so, Difficult to find those 4" slicks these days. Hurst racing tyres in Oregon City is going to build some, but my son Allan and I thought time was a wayning so we changed to the Suzuki rf 600 front end and swing arm, I agree it looks good but I also am troubled about the handling aspects of this mod, it would not take much for me to change the whole thing back again just for the roadracing end of it. In the mean time while the dragster is being built I may use this roadracer for dual purpose and take it to the dragstrip to see how well it realy can perform. Cheers.

Stuart

Stu, you've been busy since I've been by last. I've been sentenced to yard work duty and waiting for throttle cables but that is almost done so back to motorsickles. I'll have to give you a ring and swing by this weekend.

Ok Stu,

Don't much matter what size wheel on a bee line sprinter, just mass
and upright rear traction patch and front low enough not to pop up.
Longer swing arm is standard sprinter and hill climber kit.

For turning racing, stick with the tall narrower tires 100 front, 120-130
rear and start a new subject line asking **Bob Patton** to explain
his geometry and physics and seat of the pants miracle total
transforming **rear low Helm's link Lords rod end handling stablizer**.

Also add its moderate helper links at front and top. Set to full slack
locked up then see if you can even find a turn of decreasing radius
that ya can't just power in even harsher to wrap her right
up and out of there. If you press leaned hard enough
you might be able to get tire to skip some to help
sharpen the turn w/o any further pilot effort.

My own tests show that the tri-linked isolastic Commando
is potential supreme neutral hard surface handling instrument.
I say potential because pilot can do stuff that's impossible
to get away with on regular Commando or elite GP bikes.
So when at edges of traction front or back where most
will back off, you can NAIL more power and lean further
to enter handling states of ease and glee that are beyond
the crossed up, pressure-load easing slides like flat
trackers or supermotards use.

Pashaw, ya can't stay in wrist strained butt compressing
breath taking acceleration letting off like that.
I think the chassis articulates to relieve front-rear tire
conflicts which has extra side benefit of pressing
rear patch harder into traction the more you
zing and power harder.

Non crossed up straight steering drifts is just Peels Phase 3 aiming,
But there are two more faster non traction nor time wasting
ways around beyond this in a Watt's like Helm linked
isolastic power pulse dampening Commando Supremo!

You can get into 70 hp with good hop up and may
find that 150 hp bikes can only handle 40 hp to your
60+ through the tights and terribles.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2515864 ... 1179rvtCJF


hobot

Thanks for that Hobot, mmmm.... I wont be doin that to my cases then!
Foxy