Norton Commando 1974 MK2 Orginality Part#2

Hello,

I've mentioned in a post from last year, but now finally after selling my other bike, i'm really in the market now, so

I'm looking to this Norton Commando MK2 from 1974. I'm pretty new in the Norton scene so i'd like your opinions of the originality of this bike.
Still need to look for the weekend to the bike, but like to know from you fellow members what are your thoughts?

See:

http://www.marktplaats.nl/a/motoren/mot ... =mympBuyer


Cheers,
Nick

I'll list some non-original features, but one of best things about a Commando is tailoring it to your wants.

1) non-original seat
2) Wrong paint stripes for the silver scheme on the tank and, of course black side covers would be incorrect for the silver tank.
3) Headlight shell should be chrome, not black.
4) Instrument cups are aluminum finish, should be black. I can't tell if they are the incorrect early units or the correct, deeper late units that have been stripped.
5) Shocks should have exposed rear springs, not covers.
6) Front master cylinder has been stripped of black paint.
7) Anti-drainback valve in oil line is non-original, as is the braided stainless steel rocker feed line.
8.) The plastic airbox indicates this is a Mk IIA, so the original exhaust would have been black cap mufflers rather than peashooters (If I'm wrong on this I'm sure someone will jump in and correct me.)

To me these are all minor points. More importantly, does the frame tag, crankcase, and transmission case have matching numbers? And, of course, how well does it run?

All Ron's comments plus the Silver paint scheme is from a MK3 not a MK2A so the tank should be black with 2 thin gold lines and gold Norton transfer.

Its maybe also worth commenting that all Interstates came with the low flat mounted Interstate mufflers and pipes,
not the upswept Roadster peashooters as it has now.

Seems that very few Interstates have retained their Interstate type mufflers and pipes.
Personal choice - and also that Interstate mufflers were unavailable as new replacements until recently....

Rohan said:

Its maybe also worth commenting that all Interstates came with the low flat mounted Interstate mufflers and pipes,
not the upswept Roadster peashooters as it has now.

Click to expand...

Not "all", as Ron L already pointed out, an 'A' model would've had black caps.

If you are going for originality, you can still find a decent selection of unmolested bikes. The cost to return this one to original condition might be more than you would guess at first glance.

If a good looking, good running bike is what you are after, this one has the good looks. If it runs as nice as it looks, buy it!

Visible non-original on this girl:
1) Aftermarket master cylinder and brake line
2) K&N air filter - originally had "ham can"
3) Dunstall mufflers
4) Shortened turn-signal stalks
5) Chain (rear wheel?) oiler removed
6) 18" rim on the back



Here's when I first brought her back home. Still had the stock air filter and M/C for reference:


'Hope these help!
Nathan

L.A.B. said:

Rohan said:

Its maybe also worth commenting that all Interstates came with the low flat mounted Interstate mufflers and pipes,
not the upswept Roadster peashooters as it has now.

Click to expand...

Not "all", as Ron L already pointed out, an 'A' model would've had black caps.

Click to expand...

Agreed, plus balanced exhaust downpipes - introduced for this model.

It looks like the instrument cups are the correct ones, but stripped of the original satin black and missing the flexible plastic lower covers.

I would regard the non-balanced exhaust system with pea-shooters as a better proposition for all round performance, especially at the top-end, but my 'correctly silenced' MkIIA does run that bit smoother and doesn't p*** off the neighbours so much :wink:
On balance I'd favour sacrificing originality if you intend using it regularly.

The front brake hose looks to be a little an the long side, and I'm not a member of the 'anti-drain valve' camp, but that's just me.

If the price is right and the numbers are OK I'd go for it - matching numbers are definitely a bonus but not an essential IMHO.

B+Bogus said:

L.A.B. said:

Rohan said:

Its maybe also worth commenting that all Interstates came with the low flat mounted Interstate mufflers and pipes,
not the upswept Roadster peashooters as it has now.

Click to expand...

Not "all", as Ron L already pointed out, an 'A' model would've had black caps.

Click to expand...

Agreed, plus balanced exhaust downpipes - introduced for this model.

Click to expand...

All 850s should have balanced pipes, not just the 2/2A and Mk3.

http://www.classicbike.biz/Norton/Broch ... LineUp.pdf

L.A.B. said:

All 850s should have balanced pipes, not just the 2/2A and Mk3.

http://www.classicbike.biz/Norton/Broch ... LineUp.pdf

Click to expand...

Yup - well there's a thing

There's also been some dialogue regarding balanced pipes improving performance, but it seems decent fitting ones are hard to come by?

B+Bogus said:

There's also been some dialogue regarding balanced pipes improving performance,

Click to expand...

Well, yes and no.
There has been considerable recent dialogue here on that performance stuff, and the jury is still out.
Noise reduction yes, but dyno charts showing any performance benefit have yet to materialize.

Some folks have suggested they may be able to dyno test with and without balance pipes,
so we may see some resolution of this yet.

Yes, my words stand corrected, the Mk1 and Mk2 Interstates had the low flat mounted mufflers,
but the A models had the upswept black caps.
The ability to easily fit deep panniers was gone...

Rohan said:

Yes, my words stand corrected, the Mk1 and Mk2 Interstates had the low flat mounted mufflers,
but the A models had the upswept black caps.
The ability to easily fit deep panniers was gone...

Click to expand...

And, as I found out the other day, the right-hand muffler has to be removed to get the back wheel off! sometimes-just-doesn-pay-wash-your-bike-t23125.html#p303695

Rohan said:

Yes, my words stand corrected, the Mk1 and Mk2 Interstates had the low flat mounted mufflers,
but the A models had the upswept black caps.
The ability to easily fit deep panniers was gone...

Click to expand...

Not entirely, as a pair of low level brackets (06-4649 & 06-4650) were available for use with panniers that lowered the black cap silencer outlet (as used on Interpols with black caps & panniers).

Those Interpol mounting brackets raise another question. Was there a different set of exhaust pipes used? How could brackets lower the muffler with the same pipes used with the higher level system? It seems the bend in the pipe would not allow it or at least put a severe strain on the pipe and/or connection at the cylinder head.

Judging by the fact that it has the black plastic air box assembly the bike is a Mark IIA (really hard to imagine anyone fitting this black plastic air box to a Mark II). So these are some additional items that I have noticed that are not correct for that motorcycle. A lot of these items don't really distract from the bike, just things you might want to consider:

1. Taillight/License plate bracket is not mounted correctly. I am not sure what was done, but the two lower holes that are exposed on the fender is where the tail light bracket should mount.

2. The chain guard is not correct for a Mark II/IIA. It should have holes in it for mounting the fiberglass extension piece.

3. Handlebars are not correct. The original handlebars on the Interstate should be the European bars which were only 26 inches wide and is unique to that one year only.

4. Headlight mounting bracket should be chrome plated, not painted black. Also the lower yoke should be painted silver.

5. Steering lock is missing.

6. Grab Rail is missing.

7. Rubber cover for the master cylinder is missing

8. The spark coil mount should be plated not painted

9. Forward side reflectors are missing

10. Kick starter lever is not for a Mark IIA. If you want to put a Mark IIA exhaust system on, this part would need to be changed

11. Norton script on the timing cover should not be painted

12. The red kill switch button should be on the bottom of the switch cluster. Also the wire sheath that goes to the switch should be grey, not black. It would be interesting to see what else was done inside that switch assembly.

13. Front turn signals are short. They should be the same length as the rear turn signals.

14. Right foot peg that is mounted to the Z plate is held on with three studs and nuts. Originally it is held on with just two studs and nuts and one 1/4-20 bolt. That bolt also serves as the ground point for the zener diode so it would be interesting to see how they grounded that wire.

15. I noticed that it appears to be missing the accessory receptacle. I would suggest looking at all of the wiring really carefully.

I hope this is of some help. Good luck on your potential purchase.

Peter Joe

Ron L said:

Those Interpol mounting brackets raise another question. Was there a different set of exhaust pipes used? How could brackets lower the muffler with the same pipes used with the higher level system? It seems the bend in the pipe would not allow it or at least put a severe strain on the pipe and/or connection at the cylinder head.

Click to expand...

The silencer mounting faces of those brackets are angled-which rotates the silencer and because of the dog-leg in the black cap, it lowers the cylindrical section without the need for a different pipe set.

PeterJoe said:

Judging by the fact that it has the black plastic air box assembly the bike is a Mark IIA (really hard to imagine anyone fitting this black plastic air box to a Mark II).

Click to expand...

Well, it does say it's a 2A in the ad. (which I would expect it to be if it is an original 'European' market model).

PeterJoe said:

1. Taillight/License plate bracket is not mounted correctly. I am not sure what was done, but the two lower holes that are exposed on the fender is where the tail light bracket should mount.

Click to expand...

Possibly the wrong (BSA? Triumph?) pattern rear mudguard, as with a Euro-sized number plate, the end of the mudguard wouldn't normally be visible.

L.A.B. said:

The silencer mounting faces of those brackets are angled-which rotates the silencer and because of the dog-leg in the black cap, it lowers the cylindrical section without the need for a different pipe set.

Click to expand...

We wonder who's clever idea that was ?
Lateral thinking, or British Engineering, or 1 step forward and one sideways ...!

L.A.B. said:

Rohan said:

Yes, my words stand corrected, the Mk1 and Mk2 Interstates had the low flat mounted mufflers,
but the A models had the upswept black caps.
The ability to easily fit deep panniers was gone...

Click to expand...

Not entirely, as a pair of low level brackets (06-4649 & 06-4650) were available for use with panniers that lowered the black cap silencer outlet (as used on Interpols with black caps & panniers).

Click to expand...

Can you get the rear axle out out without removing the muffler?

The MkIII that my wife is riding has Emgo Dunstall replicas on it and the right muffler needs to be removed to take the axle out, except the PO welded the mufflers to the pipes so the entire side has to come off.

There are black cap mufflers available with a hole in the center of the cap, I believe Toga makes them. I was thinking of using them.

If originality is the requirement, then there are generally plenty of bikes on offer that fit the bill. My advice is always to go for as original as possible and if you want to change parts you can keep the originals. Bridge Moto are offering a MK3, other than the inner chaincase there seems to be nothing much else that is MK3 and the price - £7495.00, more than double what I would pay for it as it really is nearly a poorly collection of parts from various years as it even has parts missing.

B+Bogus said:

L.A.B. said:

All 850s should have balanced pipes, not just the 2/2A and Mk3.

http://www.classicbike.biz/Norton/Broch ... LineUp.pdf

Click to expand...

Yup - well there's a thing

There's also been some dialogue regarding balanced pipes improving performance, but it seems decent fitting ones are hard to come by?

Click to expand...