Norton 850 project(s)

Hello all, I am new to the forum and quite frankly of the British bike world all together. I have recently been offered a deal from a local individual and I think the deal is too good to pass up. He has 3.75 complete(+/-) Norton Commando 850's (1975/'76/'77) with matching VIN's. When asked if he would be interested in selling one of the bikes, he advised that if I were to fix a bike for him (at his cost) and give it back to him in running condition (not full restore), he would allow me to assemble another running bike as payment. The reaming 1.75 bikes and parts will go back to him.
He has the titles for; the '77 (black with clubman bars), the '76 (red with exposed foam seat) and for the ".75" bike that has matching numbers and almost all the parts (that I can tell) minus assembled wheel, misc parts, etc.
My question is, although I really enjoy the Norton owner comradery and connection, I am wondering if the task is too great? I have experience with a stock (NOS) restoration of a '72 Yamaha LS2, which was an amazing process and stress releiver, but I have now expereince with a British bike. I have owned; 1989 Suzuki Katana 600, 1972 Yamaha LS2 100, a custom '72 Honda CB500 (http://www.benjiescaferacer.com/bcr-originals.php) "500 Havoc Cafe'", an amazing 2002 Ducati 748. I love being on 2 wheels and everything motorcycle/dirbike. I have read, in research, more than I am comfortable admitting and know that it will not be an easy undertaking. I have read that there are specialized tools for the bikes and i beleive that the "English" shifter was switched to conform to a standard in '73/'74ish (?).
I have read enough to beleive I can tackle the task knowing that at the end I will own one of the bikes at the end, but I am wanting to hear first hand from those who have done it and experienced the highs and lows of the process. Any input or advise will be greatly appreaciated. I have searched around the site prior to joinging and I have seen some posts and comments as to similar projects, but with the pictures I wasn't sure if anyone would see something I am missing, or advise something to look at closer before taking on the job. Thanks in andvance for anything offered.
***I am new to forums and I am learning my ediquite and I am having issues uploading pics. I apologize now for any issues...***

Welcome to the forum.

Some may argue with me about what I'm about to say, but here goes.

I have worked on motorcycles for 50 years. Have owned pretty much everything from Harley's to Honda CBR's, and they all have a lot in common even tho they are very different in many ways.

I cut my teeth on British bikes back in the late 60's and early 70's, so these bikes are very familuar to me. I have rebuilt Honda's Yamaha's and Kawasaki's (no Suzuki's for some reason). To me, the Japanese bikes are somewhat more complicated. It's might be that other than the positive ground on British bikes, they are really quite simple. Overhead valve engines have been made forever and the basic design of the British bikes is pretty straight forward.

I just bought a 75 Norton 850 after years of not working on any British bikes. My immediate reaction as I started work on it is that it is not a complicated machine.

That being said, yes there are some special tools and techniques, but all of the information is out there and this forum is a huge resource with a bunch of friendly and helpful members. Like any new project you will find your way, and in the end you will have an amazing piece of history that is fun to ride and damn nice looking

Go for it!

I would be suspicious if that guy says he has 76 and 77 Nortons.
Jaydee

Wecome to the forum.

I wouldn't be all too suspicious if he gave me the entire lot up front, and signed over the title to the one he intends to pay you with...

I thank you all for your speedy responses and input. I have seen the bikes and have personally verified the VINs on the 3 bikes from the titles. A contracted is going to be drafted as to the arrangement with one of the titles which will be retained by me from the start. I have pictures of them, but I am having troubling uploading them to post to be viewed...any suggestions as to how I can post them.

One of the very top threads is "how to post photos" I use PictureTrail

Welcome to the forum.

Thanks for the insight and direction.
Here is the bike I plan on keeping for myselg...1977 Norton Commando 850 with clubman bars


Here is the 1975 Commando 850 that the guy wants back up and running. And by running he means "able to get on and ride, not restored."


Here is another 850 that is currently title-less and which I am planning on using for parts.


I don't have pics of the last titled bike, but it's a 1976 with almost all parts, that I can find, with the lower still attached to the stripped frame. VINs match on all bikes too.

Something just doesn't seem right about this. If these are 75-77 models they should all be electric start and have the hump where the starter goes and say "Electric Start" on the side covers...none of them do. Not to say the engines and side covers may have been changed but seems odd that they all are missing these parts. Maybe I'm wrong, but the 76 and 77 models were pretty much made out of left over parts from 75 as Norton wound down and eventually went out of business. The 75 model was the only electric start Norton.

The first picture, the black one, is the Only E-start one and the only 75 and up.
The other 2, may be titled as a 75, but are both non es bikes .

Top bike is a '75 spec bike, could be titled as a later model.

Bottom two bikes are clearly earlier spec bikes (72-74), right foot shift, no rear disc and no e-start.

Makes no difference; if the owner wants "bike B" refurbished, in exchange for "bike A" and any other parts needed from bikes "C" & "D", I would jump on it.

Take all the best parts and put them on bike "B", get it running, then put all the next-best parts on bike "A" and get it running. I'll bet if you offer the owner to do the forum/e-bay selling of the remaining parts and maybe split the proceeds, you could recoup most of the cost to get the 2 bikes running.

If you could post the serial numbers, it would help figure out what you have.
Jaydee

Oh man. There is a whole lotta rolling basketcase in those photos. Those bikes are in need of some real love. You may be just the guy to give it to them, but I hate open ended deals where my obligation is vague and the finish line is drawn by somebody else that has an eraser in one hand and a piece of chalk in the other. I have gotten myself into a few over the years and as a result I run from them now.

The bike you want to keep for yourself is worth, what? A few grand, three-grand? More? Less? It depends on where you are and on whether or not there is hope that it doesn't need everything. If somebody told me they would pay me three-grand to restore the red bike I would probably laugh. You are likely to have a lot of time wrapped up in it. The only way I would enter the deal is if the guy also handed me a credit card and told me to buy anything I needed to make both bikes like new.

Just my two cents, but I would shop for a bike where my obligation to the previous owner ended when they signed it over. Sorry for being negative because those bikes are in need of somebody who cares, but think carefully before you become an indentured servant.

Russ

Playing devil's advocate. Does he have any idea how much it could cost to get 'his' bike going and does he have the means in the same timeframe as you? I do not think it would sit too well with him if you're cruising around the neighborhood before his is running. Who determines what parts are salvaged and what are bought and for which bike? If both bikes need a timing cover, do you take one for yours and tell him he has to buy one?

The deal is you keep a running bike if you get his running. I would define running and make sure you both agree on it. Since he is local, you can wind up being his personal mechanic for a long time.

I almost got into a deal similar to this with someone. There were just too many things that could cause issues. I bailed on the deal.

With that all being said, I wish you luck in whatever you decide.

What an interesting proposition for which I wish you luck. My opinion, is that Cdo's are not simple bikes for someone with no previous commando ownership. It seems every bit of maintainence/overhaul requires some trick or mod to put the design failings right. Pick a subject, front brake, iso's, carb, clutch, and search the forum, there's always "something" not quite right, or benefits from mod.

Also playing devils advocate, noting that I'm not questioning your credentials as a mechanic, you are going to be on a steep learning curve with the rebuild, honestly the bikes are in a poor condition, and as going to cost a lot to get an acceptable runner. I guess a question would be what the guy expects as a "running condition"?

May I suggest that one of the first things you do is remove the spark plugs and try and kick the motor over.

I just got through pulling the head and cylinder off a 'weathered' 750. One piston was so stuck that I had to cut the connecting rod.
Rust on the underside of the bore ensured that the piston was not going down the bore and out.

Those bikes are sure a big task to get running again.
I wonder what a complete set of rubber parts including brakes and tires, gaskets, and installation time would cost?

From experience each bike will need at least $2k to $3K worth of parts, and that's just the consumable items (rubber bits, gaskets, seals, bearings etc..)

As tempting as this offer seems, based on the condition of them I would run screaming in the other direction.

All of them need a complete tear down.

Camp6 said:

... if I were to fix a bike for him (at his cost) and give it back to him in running condition (not full restore), he would allow me to assemble another running bike as payment. The remainin 1.75 bikes and parts will go back to him.

Click to expand...

If he is paying for the parts & sublet machinework, plating, painting, etc., I see this deal as a TOTAL no-brainer!

Take all the best parts for YOUR bike, send out the next-best parts for re-finishing. Use the better core parts for yours (as-is) send the next-best core parts for machinework, etc.

I would venture a guess that you can get your "payment" bike running at VERY low cost (tires, battery, carb kits and a few minor items), resulting in an excellent return for putting in 120 - 150 hours work.

IF you can talk him into also splitting the proceeds of the final parts sell-off, that's icing on the cake.

I just got through pulling the head and cylinder off a 'weathered' 750. One piston was so stuck that I had to cut the connecting rod.
Rust on the underside of the bore ensured that the piston was not going down the bore and out.

Click to expand...

Ouch! Next time drill or break the piston. It's junk anyway. It could save the cost of a new rod!

Camp6 said:

Hello all, I am new to the forum and quite frankly of the British bike world all together. I have recently been offered a deal from a local individual and I think the deal is too good to pass up. He has 3.75 complete(+/-) Norton Commando 850's (1975/'76/'77) with matching VIN's.

Click to expand...

Sorry I meant to ask what 3.75 bikes was, I presume you have 1.25 bikes in some extra boxes? Carbs, clocks etc.

Again I thank you all for your input and advise. I have thick enough skin that thoughts/questionability/workmanship won't offend me.
-As to the titles, as mentioned, they read as advised and numbers matched. Not saying that they hadn't been altered prior.
-I have limited mechanical experience by mechanic standards, but experienced by normal standards. The Yamaha I did wasn't difficult or challenging, just taking it apart/replace or clean/then re-install.
-The "owner" is flipping the bill for all parts/paint/etc. for his bike. He said that if he could be on it by next summer, than that would be cool.
-I here what you had said as to the ES and agree, but I can't remember seeing them or signs they were there or removed.
-The 3.75 bikes is because the black bike is titled, the red bike is titled, and there is a title for a third bike which is stripped ot the frame and lower unit/trans and "all" other parts are in bins. The dark blue bike is the only one w/o a title.
-I guess I am more so looking for insight as to how much the rebuild would cost in this condition and think someone had said $2k-$3k.


Thanks again for all your help. I am finding the input useful, as well as helpful.