Noisy exhaust valve tip

Yes you are right! In my country is specially dificult to keep those classics alive...by the way, furthermore I am a Norton lover, I would love to have those 4cyl japs and of course for the moment it is totally impossible....

So we must ask for help to people like you, that with that huge knoledge about those bikes, offer what you know just for the grow of the frienship around motorcycling!

Very happy to see those photos on the thread!

Long live Mr. Ed Ostack

My 2nd father!

We think you should take out the rocker shaft on that side, and examine closely for a blocked oil passage or debris that is restricting oil flow.
Maybe blow some compressed air into the entry, and see that the flow is not restricted somehow ?

Nortons made the oiling system from the return side for about 15 years, and if one valve didn't get enough oil, someone would have noticed by now.
There seems to be a problem with that oil flow on this Norton, and you need to find out why and fix it.
If a fragment of debris came up the oil line, it could partially block the passage ?
Maybe blowing air into the oil exit, and see what can be blown out ?

yasser_fernandez said:

Mr. Conmoz

Is it too much bother to ask you for one of those special drills used for that porpuse? Is that too expensive?

Click to expand...

I can order up some bits if you need them after I get back to the shop in a couple weeks. I don't know what it would take to send them to Cuba as I have never done it before.

First I would take Rohan's suggestion to pull the rocker spindle and make sure something isn't plugged up. Jim

Well, again…very happy to be a part of yours…the forum is incredible friendly! Thank you very much!
About my friend Ed Ostack…just a couple of words…he is the responsible of building the machine I already have…and the person I already are…is one of the best souls I have the privilege of having as a friend…can somebody send him a mail to let him know about this thread? The_Tomato_Man@verizon.net right now I have troubles with my mail.
So back to the topic…
Ed has told me about some possible reasons I want to explain here that may cause the noise…
The old Domi came to me with a iron head…and I use it for years, no troubles in that respect..
Then Ed send me a Nomad head (Hi comp 1962 Norton) no troubles yet..
I made the necessary changes in the length of the pushrods…
But sometime ago I fitted an Atlas camshaft so the noise appears. Maybe a change in the length of the pushrods must be done again…
Now…in my thoughts maybe the angle is a little bit uncomfortable, that makes some aggressive attack to the rocker, but THERE IS NO LUBRICATION!!! Maybe if the rocker position is a little bit more angled the oil runs through the rocker “arm” and then goes to the tip…
Anyway…
I have at home a couple of rockers from an old Renault 4CV that brings stock the tiny drill suggested…so…in my opinion this is A VERY GOOD IDEA!!
Furthermore…and giving answer to questions asked by posters..
All drills in the head that guides the oil to the rocker are completely UNOBSTRUCTED. The oil is perfectly going out of the rocker….but there is NO SPLASH..
On Commandos, the extra pressure make the oil splash, once out of the rocker when it touches the head wall, but in domies there is not that pressure, so it just leak, doesn’t splash!
Comnoz, you can ask Ed how he sent me a Norton calendar a few months ago..I would be very happy to make that modification!
Thank you very, very much!!!

Huh, Eddie O-Tomato man is a big jerk in my book and due to his online obnoxious jerky-ness neither he nor I fight in public on the Int'l Norton owners association any more. We still pester the crap out of each other almost daily for years now, so I've already sent him the URL last week to this thread. I can be an inbetween email connection if he don't sign up here to commune this way. He keeps me updated on what you send to and receive from him. I am out of the loop for part sending methods though. Cubans are damn good at keepping antiques going and rolling it their own way to do so.




http://www.google.com/search?q=cuban+ci ... B501%3B336

Another useful idea?

hm, thinking how I'd try to provide some stem oil with only a hack saw and and some bailing wire handy? Cut a small notch in top area of rocker end or both ends so oil weeps out there then wire a natural fabric cord that won't melt or dissolve under the rocker arm with ends laying on top the notches.

Nice joke hobot!

I was not joking, just trying to figure a way to collect a little oil to end up on stems. Of course you'd not bother to make your own thistle cord. If drilling as tiny a hole as indicated you'd better have half a dozen drills as the rockers are tough steel to drill. Maybe dentist have left over drills they'd donate. This is not the best place for non Commando Dominator issues, the British Iron email list and maybe INOA forum. I will ask them what they'd done. No joke we know what can happen if your old Norton breaks down and you give up on it to put energy into politics instead.

Sorry sir if you feel bad about my comment. I am not a english native speaker. My old friends has always asked me for clarification once we don't understand well, and maybe I should had asked you too. But actually I didn't understand very well what you was trying to say.
I am a motorcycle lover. Politics is not my interest. I just came here to be part of that family that has so much knowledge about those classic motorcycles.
Sorry again!
Now I am asking for clarification...
Can you draw what you are trying to explain of use a more basic english for me to understand?
Best regards,
Yasser.

Just trying to figure out a way to get some oil to the stem not trying to get very political but Norton name has some connection to Cuba politics is all. Maybe just have to live with it by putting on hardened valve stem caps and replace when gets too worn. There is a thread pitch method to adjust lash, tiny turn of adjuster back off stem contact that compensates for the dimple wear that a flat feeler blade straddles.

Commando adjusters are 9/32" - 26 tpi BS Cycle thread. ( 1 turn = 0.0385")
5/16" UNF is 24 tpi. (1 turn = 0.0417") Ok. Based on 26TPI 1 turn = 0.0385in.
0.006in~ 0.15 turns or 54°
0.008in~ 0.20 turns or 72°
0.010in~ 0.25 turns or 90°



What type oil do you have available to use? What kind of container does it come in? Any synthetic oil available? How long do you go before a change? What do you do with waste oil?

Yasser has a noisy exhaust valve(s) on his Dominator.
He said it screams after it warms up and there is no oil “splash” to lube the valve tip.

I am wondering if, when the Nomad model came along, Norton provided an oiling improvement with an oil pump on the Nomad motor providing a stronger flow of oil to the Nomad head and valves?
I think there was some power improvement from the Domi to the Nomad model.

ANd I am further wondering if this new model Nomad head assembly might have required some oil restriction in its passageway drillings ( during its development) to compensate for a change in oil pressure to keep TOO MUCH oil from entering the valve area.

Perhaps there have been some changes from the Domi spindle and rockers... to the oil passage drillings in the Nomad parts ........

Just wondering if ... the weaker oiling system of the DOmi .....mated with his later Nomad head are the reason for inadequate oiling problem?


WOuld Norton Nomad owners have any idea about that?

Tman

Thanks Ed for your Ideas!
Hobot that you too for your clarification.
I have already fitted those kind of hardened valve stem caps, and actually the don’t worn too much as they are very hard. But the noise is produced even their surface is plain enough.
Ed, the is a friend of mine that has a 650 cylinder and head in a Domi. He actually put some restriction in the inner passage of the head. In my case there is more flow to inlet valves ….
But…
What I want to underline is that..The biggest flow I can adquire with my actual pump is the one that I get putting my finger in the oil return pipe inside the oil tank, right?
Well, even in this scenario up in the head the oil came out through the rockers and drops down because there is not enough pressure to produce any kind of splash..
Maybe the flat surface of the rockers against the flat surface of the washer needs PRESSURE to produce the splash..
In my thought there MUST be a kind of groove, spoon, “disruptor” to produce the oil jumps, splash!!
I THINK WE ARE ON THE RIGHT PATH!!!

Yasser, Do you have other parts ( spindle and rockers) left from your original Domi head?
I don't know if there is any difference...in those parts...

That might be something you could try....if you have original DOmi spindle and rockers from your old DOmi head.

If I understand you, you are saying that your friend has a Norton 650 ( what model? year? ) with a DOmi head...
ANd the DOmi head on his machine required some.... oil RESTRICTION....

Perhaps Norton realized the weak oil flow to the valves was a problem that needed fixing...and by the time the Nomad head was designed ..it was given a new oil pump with better oil pressure and the oil delivery passages inside the... NOMAD head ...were made ...SMALLER ???

I'm just guessing here...

something is causing inadequate( lets say..IMPROPER) oiling to your valve tips. One thing is certain...there is a change between the motor and the head.....from DOmi to Nomad.
SOMEONE...out there knows something about this SITUATION ..and holds the KEY ..to the answer.

WHenever something is modified, changed, a previously working system.... is often interrupted by design inconsistencies that go unrecognized.

I think its time for a Cuban sandwich! and coconut smoothie....

A red tomato is sitting on the window sill waiting for some mayonnaise and toast!
Tman

has your oil pump got a 3 start worm or the latter 6 start worm :?:

Bernhard,
You might need some more explanation regarding the worm or even some attached pictures , if possible .

Yasser has a Domi 99 bottom end motor. I think it is a 1958 Domi motor. Onto this he has grafted a Norton Nomad head assembly.

He seems to think the oiling is not the problem but the way the oil runs down from the rocker arms, missing its opportunity to get to supply the valve tip with some lubrication.

SInce this problem seems odd to DOmi owners, I would suggest it has something to do with the differences in the Nomad head and some changes made to the oiling system of the Nomad head..after the design used in the Dominator.
I am coming from a pure speculation standpoint.

If he oils it, the noise goes away.
I am going to Mid Ohio tomorrow. Is there a Norton oil pump that will fit his DOmi and what might I look for?
I am not sure the fix is an oil pump because this is not a normal DOmi problem as I gather.

I just remembered a fellow in Ohio named Jerry who rides an antique unpainted DOminator and rides itfrequently to rallies and meets. I sent him an email with a condensed version of the ideas gone over here.
Riding an old DOminator and keeping it in running shape sees more than its share of problems to fix. If anybody knows the key to this problem it should be Jerry.
I might even see him at Mid Ohio this weekend. He makes that usually.

Ed

Thanks for all Ed...keep posting!!!

Ed is ok, till ya get to know him online better, then tempts ya with all sorts of goodies to spend on and on and on...

Glad I'm not stuck with miss matched rescued items making a screeching noise, ugh. You are already using the caps so never mind me on that.
There is oil in the spindles of the rockers so if a hole drilled through the rocker arm to exit near the adjuster end, that'd oil it. Rockers are way over built for the loads his Domi will put on it, so could use a more robust size drill and start it right through the far side rocker hub to get a good line to the adjuster end then weld over the entry hole and grind nice, then fill the exit end too and relieve it enough with tiny drill to a dribble out only, not to flood the rocker box with its poor drainage provided down the lifters fit. I'd relieve the front of lifters a bit myself. Or maybe just a hole in top of rocker arm what it meets hub to spittle out enough on rocker arm it would splash enough on the end. OR fit nipples in the rocker covers and pinch ends to a tiny exit and tap oil off the head feed by another hose that Y's to slip on and off the rocker covers.

yasser_fernandez said:

Thanks Ed for your Ideas!
Hobot that you too for your clarification.
I have already fitted those kind of hardened valve stem caps, and actually the don’t worn too much as they are very hard. But the noise is produced even their surface is plain enough.
Ed, the is a friend of mine that has a 650 cylinder and head in a Domi. He actually put some restriction in the inner passage of the head. In my case there is more flow to inlet valves ….
But…
What I want to underline is that..The biggest flow I can adquire with my actual pump is the one that I get putting my finger in the oil return pipe inside the oil tank, right?
Well, even in this scenario up in the head the oil came out through the rockers and drops down because there is not enough pressure to produce any kind of splash..
Maybe the flat surface of the rockers against the flat surface of the washer needs PRESSURE to produce the splash..
In my thought there MUST be a kind of groove, spoon, “disruptor” to produce the oil jumps, splash!!
I THINK WE ARE ON THE RIGHT PATH!!!

Click to expand...

All Norton changed the oil pump worm from 1966 on to double speed to a 6 start worm on the crankshaft/oil pump. Also a bigger oil block and bigger oil holes to/from the oil pump that year.
Earlier bikes, with the 3 start worm had smaller oil block & oil holes.
You could, just to double the oil flow, fit a 6 start worm, but check that you have from the timing case that the bolt connecting the oil pipe has a hole that is clear and not blocked.
Re; “Well, even in this scenario up in the head the oil came out through the rockers and drops down because there is not enough pressure to produce any kind of splash..”
This might suggest worn oil pump, the only way to determine is to have it pressure tested from the timing cover.