New electric start conversion

Anglophile said:

"An alton is just as much without the belt"

Dude!!! You're comparing apples to oranges. The Alton comes with a new alternator ( which is great if you need one).

Now back to focusing on the subject of the thread...

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True, the Alton kit comes with a proprietary alternator and starter. Which means if an alternator or starter motor fails, you have to go back to Alton for OEM replacement. I do not have information on OEM cost, so I cannot comment on the price level of these OEM parts

Conversely, Matt and I decided that parts that could possible fail (as alternators and starter motors occasionally do) we would stay with either stock or commercially available components. This will allow the consumer to upgrade (ie switching to a 3 phase high output alternator) or economically buy parts from a host of suppliers. The starter motor has been used, in volume, by a major motorcycle manufacturer, on the same bike from 1982 to present, and is available at almost every motorcycle parts outlet.

Our starter is also solenoid operated, which means that the starter pinion does not stay engaged in the gear train. Why is this important? There a two basic type of sprag failures. 1) The sprag does not engage / bike will not start with starter motor and you are back to kick starting. No big deal 2) Sprag engages while engine is within normal engine operating RPM / when this happens on a Mark III it is catastrophic, as the engine RPM is multiplied (in operation the e-start gear train is a gear reduction for multiplying torque from the starter to the crank) back up the gear drive to the starter motor armature (could be as high as 40,000 to 50,000 RPM at the armature shaft) This causes the armature to come apart from centrifugal force.

Alton's system keeps the starter motor pinion engaged at all time. They do have a design feature that is suppose to fail if a sprag engages during normal motor operations. This design feature should prevent a catastrophic failure of the starter motor, but you will have to replace sprocket shaft and receiver should this happen. I have not heard or read any reports of this type of failure happening to an Alton system

Additionally, by getting the belt drive on the CNW system, you get a new aluminum clutch basket which helps reduce some of the additional weight added by the estart system. The new clutch basket also comes with a new clutch center, which commonly has wear on the spines.

Let me add a final comment on the Alton system. It is a very nice design. I took it apart and looked at it closely when we designed the CNW E-Start. Workmanship is excellent, and the design is solid. If the CNW system did not exist, I would have no qualms in buying one. I have looked at other offerings that I would not put on my Nortons. You would be happy with either an Alton or CNW E-Start, and now you have a choice. Each system has a different design objective, and both work great.

John @ STS

G81 Can Cycle said:

Let me add a final comment on the Alton system. It is a very nice design. I took it apart and looked at it closely when we designed the CNW E-Start. Workmanship is excellent, and the design is solid. If the CNW system did not exist, I would have no qualms in buying one. I have looked at other offerings that I would not put on my Nortons. You would be happy with either an Alton or CNW E-Start, and now you have a choice. Each system has a different design objective, and both work great.

John @ STS

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As someone who is on the list for a CNW starter kit, I really appreciate your friendly, knowledgeable comments on a competing system! I know there is a lot of junk floating around out there for Nortons, and comments need to be made about things like bad rod bolts, etc. Seems like either starter choice would be good. I have an Alton generator on my Velo, and it's served me well.

Now here is something you don't see every day: A manufacturer providing a very positive review of his competitor's product.

Plus one.

I am pleased today that we have one of the first new electric starter kits available from CNW installed on our 73 850 Commando. We have owned this bike for 39 years so it is a valued family member that my wife and I ride. This bike has been updated with a Pazon ignition and Amal Premier carbs a few years ago so the e start is a great addition to help tired knees. John preformed the installation at STS in Jacksonville FL. The components are first rate and starts the bike at the first touch of the button. We are using the original Lucas switch as there is an unused button on the right cluster that works perfectly for this starter switch application. The original air filter cover can't be used but the backing plate remains and the ignition switch stays undisturbed. A K&N filter is able to squeeze in behind the carbs to provide filtered intake for the Amals. We will be attending the British in the Blue Ridge Rally at the Georgia Mountain Fairgrounds the first week of June in Hiawassee Georgia. We will be at campsite F5 so if you want to see the e start up close stop by.
John

Hi Matt,

I know I'm in line for one of your starters, and I'm not going to bug you about it, but I do have a question: I've seen numerous belt-drive primary Commandos, most with some sort of vents in the cover. Anything from three screw-in screens to fancy air scoops on the front, you name it. What do you think of venting the outer primary on your kit? Any harm, as long as you are not doing dirt roads?

Don

Brithit said:

Hi Matt,

I know I'm in line for one of your starters, and I'm not going to bug you about it, but I do have a question: I've seen numerous belt-drive primary Commandos, most with some sort of vents in the cover. Anything from three screw-in screens to fancy air scoops on the front, you name it. What do you think of venting the outer primary on your kit? Any harm, as long as you are not doing dirt roads?

Don

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Don,

We are putting kits together and shipping as fast as we can. I will talk to you soon about yours

The inner primary cover on the cNw kit is actually vented already. It has two machined slits in the front, two on the bottom (as a drain) and two in the back. This will be sufficient to run the cavity a bit cooler. I do not see any need to add additional venting

If you want to do something different for looks, you certainly can. Just be sure it doesn't use any openings large enough to have something enter the primary that could cause damage to the internals



Matt / Colorado Norton Works

http://www.coloradonortonworks.com

Matt or John-
Is there an anti-backfire device of some sort incorporated into the starter system?

Thanks
Glen

worntorn said:

Matt or John-
Is there an anti-backfire device of some sort incorporated into the starter system?

Thanks
Glen

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Glen,

By design, there is a starter solenoid that withdraws the engagement gear after the starter button is released, so there is nothing connecting the starter and the operating system when the bike is running. After start up, you could essentially remove the starter if you wanted to

If there is a backfire, a few gears in the primary will just spin backwards, with no possible damage getting done

This was something we looked closely at when the kit was originally put togther as we all know that a backfire is not nessecarily all that uncommon and we did not want to allow it to compromise the system in any way

Matt / Colorado Norton Works

www.coloradonortonworks.com

cNw said:

If there is a backfire, a few gears in the primary will just spin backwards, with no possible damage getting done

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Doesn't the starter motor drive gear have an overload clutch?

Kickback during starting is perhaps most common, so the Unit must be made sturdy enough to handle this?
Or is there a kickback mechanism, ie slip clutch, Bellville washer etc, within the starter itself ?

Glen

L.A.B. said:

cNw said:

If there is a backfire, a few gears in the primary will just spin backwards, with no possible damage getting done

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Doesn't the starter motor drive gear have an overload clutch?

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Yes, you are correct. there is an additional clutch or sprag on the gear train in the starter. It was one of the deciding factors in using the starter motor we selected

John