Needing Air

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Well done rohan!
1. Do you have a Norton Commando? [YES]
2. If yes, does it have AMAL carbys? [YES Mk1]
So far, so good. Keep up the good work please.
3. If yes, are stepped spray nozzles fitted? [YES] or [NO]
Ta.
:D I should have been a dentist :D
 
Enough of the condescending, Owen.
Either show what you have done, and why, and how it behaves, or we may as well move on to something more useful.
Your custom mufflers alone may mean this is not applicable to any other Norton...

I certainly wouldn't modify any Amals, or anything else, based on anything you have said/shown here so far.
 
Yes here it is

Needing Air


Although its not drawn very well - not to scale, and a somewhat illogical layout - it shows the pilot jet and slide cutaway only operate for the lower part of the throttle opening range. If its rich low down, why not just file the slide cutaway to suit, to lean it out a shade.
Of course, you can always buy a slide with a bigger cutaway and fit that, but Amal just files it down for you...

Shirley thats better than changing everything, and fitting a richer slide !

But we don't have those custom mufflers...
 
Dear rohan.
Question 3 is actually moot in your situation since you do not have a Norton Commando that is roadgoing. Pity, the most cynical make the greatest zealots. Has it really taken you 40+ years to discover a missing rotor nut?

I am again looking for a person with AMAL Mk1s fitted with stepped spray nozzles. If you are currently, or have previously, suffered plug fouling concerns at around-town throttle openings i.e. less than 3500 rpm then I again recommend changing to flat-top spray nozzles. Your feedback after the change (good, bad, indifferent) is most welcome but the only pre-requisite is an open mind!
Ta.
 
This updated chart, already redundant, is more refelective of reality (update soon).
The circuits greatest influence phase is shown but they continue to function thoughout the throttle opening range (not 'switch' off as rohan seems to have perceived from AMALS 40+year old version that does not even show 'needle jet').
Ta.
 
needing said:
This updated chart, already redundant, is more refelective of reality (update soon).
The circuits greatest influence phase is shown but they continue to function thoughout the throttle opening range (not 'switch' off as rohan seems to have perceived from AMALS 40+year old version that does not even show 'needle jet').
Click to expand...

Nonsense statements, typical.
Thats where any 'science' here is thrown out the window.

Amals diagram CLEARLY shows all the influences tapering on and off, no 'switching off' involved.
As anyone who has studied how an amal works would have figured out for themselves anyway.
And you have merely renamed one that Amal called something different.

If that diagram was drawn to scale, (and with a more logical layout), it would be more representative of what was really happening.
 
Dearest rohan.
I can see that you are still struggling with understanding AMAL Mk1s so I will give it one last try.
The generic chart (below) shows tapering of the pilot circuit but it remains 'on'. Similarly but not elucidated on this chart, the needle extracts from its jet to transition to the main jet but the needle jet stays 'on' to pass the fuel through it.
Are you getting any of this? Perhaps if I could write it s.l.o.w.l.y and LOUDLY, do you think that would help you?
I feel sure that the 'silent majority' (your 'we') don't struggle with such basic concepts.
BTW, I did scale my updated AMAL chart into millimetres but have you failed to comprehend this subtle enhancement also?
Ta
 
Patronizing condescending tosh.
Anyone would be foolish to believe 100% in anything you produce here,
there are just too many falsehoods thown about.

And your custom mufflers make this not applicable ? to Commandos with peashooters

Demonstrate HOW you know the pilot jet operates up to full throttle.
And then block it off, entirely, and re-run the tests.
And report back with the results - so we can see you are genuine, have run the tests, and understand the results.
 
Rohan said:
...Demonstrate HOW you know the pilot jet operates up to full throttle...
Click to expand...
I take this to be self-evident, but just for your education...
W.H.I.L.E. A.I.R.F.L.O.W. P.R.E.V.A.I.L.S. P.E.R.P.E.N.D.I.C.U.L.A.R. T.O. T.H.E. P.I.L.O.T. C.I.R.C.U.I.T. P.I.N.H.O.L.E. O.R.I.F.I.C.E.S. F.U.E.L. W.I.L.L. C.O.N.T.I.N.U.E. T.O. B.E. D.R.A.W.N.!
Are you getting it yet?
Ta.
 
S.O. H.A.V.E Y.O.U. T.E.S.T.E.D. I.T. T.O P.R.O.V.E. I.T.

A.N.D. W.H.Y. D.O. A.M.A.L. T.H.E.M.S.E.L.V.E.S. S.H.O.W. O.N. T.H.E.I.R C.H.A.R.T. T.H.A.T. T.H.E.
P.I.L.O.T. J.E.T. T.A.P.E.R.S. O.F.F. T.O I.N.O.P.E.R.A.T.I.V.E. B.E.F.O.R.E. E.V.E.N. H.A.L.F. T.H.R.O.T.T.L.E. ?.

I'd be V.E.R.Y. suspicious of anyone who claims to know more than Amal does,
without C.O.N.S.I.D.E.R.A.B.L.E. proof.
Of which you have supplied none, so far.
 
i'm interested in the muffs, the why? benefits?

i'd think it would be problematic comparing carb metering/mixture results running unique mufflers?
 
Rohan said:
Sorry to be blunt, but we are blundering in the dark here somewhat - at least I am, as a reader anyway.
Maybe everyone else has a crystal clear vision of what ye are doing - let them speak ...
Click to expand...

needing said:
to maintain this thread as a discussion of improvement to the flow of air in a Norton Commando above and below the piston crown.
Click to expand...

https://www.google.ca/search?q=comunica ... qhNvu-jqgK

https://www.google.ca/webhp?hl=en#hl=en ... municating

The Five Communication Styles

Assertive

Aggressive

Passive-aggressive

Submissive

Manipulative

Different sorts of behaviour and language are characteristic of each.
Click to expand...
 
Hi 84ok.
The mention of my mufflers is simple distraction from a lack of basic carby knowledge.
How AMAL Mk1s flow air and fuel remains the same regardless of all muffler variations. Specific tuning of AMALs for mufflers still has no place for stepped spray nozzles but may require incremental changes to the air and fuel circuits to match to mufflers. For example, are you aware of the various types of peashooter internal construction? I suspect very few people have made incremental changes to their carbys when changing mufflers - even those with 850s that originally had the 'beancan' type. My test program is for my mods to AMAL Mk1s: if my findings reveal nonsenses like stepped spray nozzles, I pass this knowledge on. Appeciate my recommendation or not: I gain nothing from it.
However, I do appreciate your interest and commend you for showing it!
Ta.
PS: the communication links are better suited to 'the pub' as they detract from the gist of this thread that you pasted above. Ta.
 
ah yes, i had forgotten,

on the one hand, you like to have order while at the same time you yourself promote disorder in a thread and on a grand scale,

on that alone, you can't have it both ways, but good luck
 
84ok said:
ah yes, i had forgotten,

on the one hand, you like to have order while at the same time you yourself promote disorder in a thread and on a grand scale,

on that alone, you can't have it both ways, but good luck
Click to expand...
Entropy in the 'Needing Air' thread? Flattering but I must demur unless the focus is Norton Commando as thermodynamic system. Perhaps a consideration for 'the pub'. :D
Ta.
 
needing said:
Hi 84ok.
The mention of my mufflers is simple distraction from a lack of basic carby knowledge.
Click to expand...

Having different mufflers on your bike for these 'tests' is EVERYTHING .
You quoted earlier you wanted them quieter ?

That could mean more backpressure ??
If you have more backpressure on YOUR bike, that makes it different to every Commando with peashooters,
for jetting requirements.

More backpressure requires jetting it down to suit.
That alone could explain your entire results and 'testing' regime - of which we got scant detail.
But perhaps you don't know this, or haven't considered this ??!!??

You have to address this issue, and discuss it, or we will have to assume your knowledge just isn't up to scratch,
and your results just aren't applicable to Amals for Commandos (mit peashooters) in general.
All you may have done is chase the jetting for these mufflers ?
 
A quick'n'easy way of doing this would be to refit the peashooters, and see if the jetting changes are suitable for peashooters.
Or not....
 
Rohan said:
...Having different mufflers on your bike for these 'tests' is EVERYTHING .
Click to expand...
Dear rohan.
What an excellent idea – if you are really sure mufflers are ‘Everything’.
To remove possible peashooter construction variability, please send me your peashooter mufflers since you are not using them. I will run a two hour Air:Fuel ratio datalogging session with them fitted to my bike. For sensible comparison, you will also need a two hour session using my ‘exotica’ mufflers. To eliminate environmental variability, I envisage conducting this testing on the same day. Please PM me your details so I may invoice you for my time and an estimate of the return shipping of your mufflers. I suggest you insure your mufflers for shipping to me as I will insist on return shipping insurance for your peace of mind.
Ta.
 
I'd think it would be almost cheaper to just obtain a new set.
That way we'd be sure we were testing something that is currently available too.
You'd probably need all the mounting brackets too ?
 
Rohan said:
I'd think it would be almost cheaper to just obtain a new set.
That way we'd be sure we were testing something that is currently available too.
You'd probably need all the mounting brackets too ?
Click to expand...
Dear rohan.
You would not save at all as you would still pay for your testing and return shipping. At most you would save shipping to me but on the up side you would have an extra set of brand new mufflers. Please PM me how you would prefer to transfer funds so I can organise the purchase of your new peashooters. Are you sure this is how you will proceed with your testing?
Ta.
 
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