Must be the week for MkIIIs

Well, actually a month ago...a friend ran into some financial difficulties and decided to sell his MkIII. He has plenty of other bikes, he just hadn't ridden this one for a couple years so decided it was on the block. My wife has been wanting a MkIII for a while, she rides, has a couple BMWs and a Ducati Monster but due to having 7 knee surguries, the last being a complete replacement, she wanted an Estart model.

my wife with the previous owner.


This bike is rumored to be the last new Norton sold in Alabama, it didn't sell till 1981. The first owner only rode it 1700 miles, then sold it on. That owner never rode it, it sat under a tree in his yard till another friend, while driving his school bus route, saw it. By then it had sat for almost 25 years. He bought it, didn't do much with it, sold it on to the guy I bought it from about 2001.
He went through the bike, installed a Pazon, removed the electric start, cleaned it up, rode it about 6K miles. A couple years ago it developed a misfire, and left him stranded a couple times. The last time was two years ago, he stopped riding it and got busy at work and couldn't find time to work on it.

After we got it home, I sent my wife to get a new battery while I drained the tank and carbs and put fresh gas in it. It tried to start, sometimes would even run for a few seconds. Pulling the plugs reveled an intermitant spark, toggling the kill switch would sometimes help.

We rebuilt the switches, both looked horrible. The guts even worse.







Kroil, heat, left handed drill bits, and EZ outs (not) got the stripped screws out and the switches apart.



i'd read some where that white vinegar disolves rust, so why not vinegar, heat and ultrasound?





After 50 minutes at 50 degrees C, this is what the internals looked like;



I soaked them in water and baking soda for a few minutes, rinsed with water, blew dry, then sprayed with Kroil to keep them from rusting again.

I cleaned the outsides with Aircraft Paint Stripper, nasty stuff. Finished them off with a walnut shell blasting. Then painted;



My wife then painted the lettering, wiping off the excess with a cloth wrapped around a block of foam;





After assembly, we had consistant spark, and the bike fired right up and kept running.

Nicely done!

Now that it was running, it was time to move onto other issues. Front master cylinder was leaking, so a sleeved one was ordered from Rocky Point Cycle along with new lines.

The next step is to make it start on the button, one of the previous owners had removed the starter and it's related stuff. I started to remove the primary cover to see where I stood;



Most of the parts were in a box, and I have a few parts from a parts bike I picked up a few years back. Looks like other than an actual starter, I have most of what I need;



which leads to several questions...

Where did the solenoid mount? I can't find any place to mount it. Maybe on the original airbox? which ha been removed and replaced with a K&N.

Also, the bushing for the nose of the starter is missing inside the inner primary. I looked in the parts manual, can't find a listing anywhere. There's a part that looks like it should be it, but the description calls it a nut, part # 14-0301 in group 10, item #3.

norton73 said:

Now that it was running, it was time to move onto other issues. Front master cylinder was leaking, so a sleeved one was ordered from Rocky Point Cycle along with new lines.

The next step is to make it start on the button, one of the previous owners had removed the starter and it's related stuff. I started to remove the primary cover to see where I stood;

Most of the parts were in a box, and I have a few parts from a parts bike I picked up a few years back. Looks like other than an actual starter, I have most of what I need;

which leads to several questions...

Where did the solenoid mount? I can't find any place to mount it. Maybe on the original airbox? which ha been removed and replaced with a K&N.

Also, the bushing for the nose of the starter is missing inside the inner primary. I looked in the parts manual, can't find a listing anywhere. There's a part that looks like it should be it, but the description calls it a nut, part # 14-0301 in group 10, item #3.

Click to expand...

That bushing was never installed. jim

There's a bushing on the inside of the other inner primary I have kicking around from the parts bike. Without it, the shaft would deflect and eventually tear up the gears imho.

gortnipper said:

Nicely done!

Click to expand...

Thanks!

The solenoid mounts under the seat. It bolts on with a bracket to the flat plate that goes across the rear of the large spine frame tube. It's in front of the plate, sort of above, and a little to the rear of the battery, on the left side. If no one else posts a picture, I'll take one tomorrow and post it.

Ken

Hi norton73.
May I suggest you preserve the fine work you have done to those switches by routing the electrics through relays to take the load off those 40+ year old contacts.
Ta.

norton73 said:

There's a bushing on the inside of the other inner primary I have kicking around from the parts bike. Without it, the shaft would deflect and eventually tear up the gears imho.

Click to expand...

I have never seen one from the factory with a bushing, not to say they couldn't have made some. There is no bushing in either of my MK3s. I was told that they dropped it because of alignment problems.
I have seen people fit custom made bushings there.

You might look at a CNW starter. They have a ball bearing on the drive end. Jim

norton73 said:

Where did the solenoid mount?

Click to expand...

As long as the commutator and the splines are ok you have the makings of a starter.
Have a search for some threads here regarding 4 brush conversions, also fit at least 6 gauge leads.

Thanks for the info and pics.
I'm going to drop the pieces of starter that I have along with an old Sportster starter at an electric shop in the next couple days and see what they have to say about it.

Very nice work on the switchgear. Good luck with the rest.

Danno said:

Very nice work on the switchgear. Good luck with the rest.

Click to expand...

+1.....I had to clean up my switches too , your end result however, is head and shoulders above mine :mrgreen: thanks for posting the pictures of it.

Better check your cam...I have not seen a MKIII that have not needed a new camshaft with over 15k on the clock. They had a problem with the hardness and after about 10-15k miles the camshaft will lose a lobe... And then the pieces goes through the oil pump. You can check it by looking at the travel of the valve train while you are adjusting your valves and it will become obvious....
Others might have a different experience ...Anyone have a MKIII ...and have checked their cam...and found their original cam to be good?
Rod

Britbike850 said:

Better check your cam...I have not seen a MKIII that have not needed a new camshaft with over 15k on the clock. They had a problem with the hardness and after about 10-15k miles the camshaft will lose a lobe... And then the pieces goes through the oil pump. You can check it by looking at the travel of the valve train while you are adjusting your valves and it will become obvious....
Others might have a different experience ...Anyone have a MKIII ...and have checked their cam...and found their original cam to be good?
Rod

Click to expand...

My never opened up Mk3 has 30,000 miles on it now.
My buddy Bob's MK3 [Pheonix] has around 100,000 miles on it now on the stock cam. I checked it when I rebuilt it, it was soft just like all the MK3 cams.

It's the oil. Jim

I love your team resourcefulness in restoring the switch gear. They look super. That is one nice thing about Brit gear. It can usually be cleaned up, derusted, relubed, repainted and it is ready to go again. To me that is what restoration is all about. No running to the parts place to get new stuff that is no where nearly as robust as the old stuff. That's good old style southern engineering. Well done.

Britbike850 said:

Better check your cam...I have not seen a MKIII that have not needed a new camshaft with over 15k on the clock. They had a problem with the hardness and after about 10-15k miles the camshaft will lose a lobe... And then the pieces goes through the oil pump. You can check it by looking at the travel of the valve train while you are adjusting your valves and it will become obvious....
Others might have a different experience ...Anyone have a MKIII ...and have checked their cam...and found their original cam to be good?
Rod

Click to expand...

At 40,000 or so miles I was adjusting one exhaust valve too much to be normal while the others needed no adjustment. Also more filings than usual were showing up on the sump magnet. Bike was still running fine but inspection showed a cam lobe that was breaking down. It still had fine lift but the hand writing was on the wall. Bike was mine since new and mostly got regular oil changes, probably key to the cam lasting as long as it did. I don't wish to turn this into an oil discussion so I won't recommend a brand but I would use something with a high ZDDP rating. Unless your cam is toast already this type of oil may prolong or even stave off cam replacement. My choice is, in case you were curious is Mobil 1, 20w50 V Twin. It's used in the primary too because the weight is right for the MK3's hydraulic primary chain tensioners and although the Commando does not technically run a wet clutch the plates can and do get damp. I've found this oil does not contribute to making the clutch stick or slip.

That's my story and I'm stick'n to it. Sorry if I let OIL slip into this thread. :wink:

Hey which lobe was it that started breaking up ? I have my original MK 111 cam here in hand and it was breaking up on the left side closest to primary drive. If so maybe this is the lobe ?

Timing side intake lobe...almost completely gone. I thought it was running fine until Dyno Dave ask me
If I had checked the valve train travel because of the soft cam shafts that maybe in the MKIII. Since then...most MKIII owners I have met say they had a soft camshaft and replaced it or they will be replacing it soon.
The benefit of these soft cam shafts are the scoring of the oil pumps as the camshaft breaks down...and the wet sumping that follows.... :lol:
Not saying that they are all soft...but if you are MKIII owner....I would pay close attention to the valve train travel during valve adjustments or maintenance . I confirmed my bad camshaft with a scope before tearing into it and could not believe that she ran at all...
New oil pump in my future...and they don't give them away
Just saying,
Rod