MkIII Countershaft Sprocket

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I don't know what mine is fitted with tooth wise. I'm guessing standard Nth American 20T.
With 18" rim and 4.10 tyre, I'm pulling 60mph around 4000rpm. Sound about right?

My brother seems to be pulling 60mph around 3500rpm with his 19" rim. I would not have thought my smaller
wheel would make that much difference. Perhaps his is a 21T based on the difference?

Does anyone have the comparisons?
 
Al-otment said:
I think you're right.

Yes, calc'd out, the wheel size would only account for about 150rpm.
I see up to 24T C/sprockets were available. That's looong gearing!
 
Hello Phil,
I think I used a 22T on my Mk111 which has 18" rims.
That gave 60 mph at just over 3500.
It's in a container in Tasmania with my other toys so I can't look for you at the moment.
I may have used larger but I think it was 22 teeth.

Graeme
 
GRM 450 said:
Hello Phil,
I think I used a 22T on my Mk111 which has 18" rims.
That gave 60 mph at just over 3500.
It's in a container in Tasmania with my other toys so I can't look for you at the moment.
I may have used larger but I think it was 22 teeth.

Graeme

Thanks Graeme
That makes sense given what I am getting with what I strongly expect is a 20T sprocket. I guess I could go and count the chain links.

Phil
 
phil yates said:
I guess I could go and count the chain links.

:?
Why not just stick your head under the bike and count the teeth on the sprocket. :wink:
Put a dab of white paint, tippex etc. on the tip of one tooth to help you count.

MkIII Countershaft Sprocket
 
L.A.B. said:
phil yates said:
I guess I could go and count the chain links.

:?
Why not just stick your head under the bike and count the teeth on the sprocket. :wink:
Put a dab of white paint, tippex etc. on the tip of one tooth to help you count.

Well I will be honest L.A.B.
I was kind of hoping that with the entire world's Norton experts at the tip of my fingers, one, just one of them would come up with a more scientific approach than that!! In 1973, I knew the figures i.e. mph per 1000rpm for 19T and 21T sprockets and I seem to recall there was no 20T option in that year. C/S sprocket was not even listed in the parts book. Not that it would help if it was.

But yes L.A.B. Primitive suggestion but possible. I will tell Jenny that is the best you could come up with and loan her my grey dust coat.
 
phil yates said:
But yes L.A.B. Primitive suggestion but possible. I will tell Jenny that is the best you could come up with and loan her my grey dust coat.

Yes, I thought you would be kind enough to allow Jenny the privilege-which is probably for the best, as the task involves turning the rear wheel whilst also counting the teeth, and women are better at multitasking than men. :wink:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24645100
 
phil yates said:
I was kind of hoping that with the entire world's Norton experts at the tip of my fingers, one, just one of them would come up with a more scientific approach than that!! In 1973, I knew the figures i.e. mph per 1000rpm for 19T and 21T sprockets and I seem to recall there was no 20T option in that year. C/S sprocket was not even listed in the parts book. Not that it would help if it was.

In the factory service manual there is a chart for the speed of the motorcycle at 3 different RPM's using various countershaft sprockets. With that chart I was able to come up with a constant number for each sprocket size.Unfortunately the chart that Norton supplies is not 100% accurate, they rounded either up or down on their miles per hour. But here is what I came up with:

For a 19 tooth sprocket multiply the rpm by .0153 and that will give you the miles per hour. (Example 4000 rpm x .0153 = 61.2 mph)
For a 20 tooth sprocket multiply the rpm by .0161 to get the miles per hour
For a 21 tooth sprocket multiply the rpm by .0170 to get the miles per hour
For a 22 tooth sprocket multiply the rpm by .0177 to get the miles per hour
For a 23 tooth sprocket multiply the rpm by .0186 to get the miles per hour

These would be approximate miles per hour because I am working off Norton's chart. This is also assuming you have the original primary gearing and are in high gear.

A 4.10 x 18 rear tire seems a bit small in diameter for a Norton Commando and your speedometer reading would no doubt be incorrect. When it comes to tire replacement time, I would recommend finding an 18 inch tire that has an outside diameter closer to the original 19 inch tire.
 
L.A.B. said:
phil yates said:
But yes L.A.B. Primitive suggestion but possible. I will tell Jenny that is the best you could come up with and loan her my grey dust coat.

Yes, I thought you would be kind enough to allow Jenny the privilege-which is probably for the best, as the task involves turning the rear wheel whilst also counting the teeth, and women are better at multitasking than men. :wink:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24645100

Not only that, Jenny can count!
 
I got info of this site which enabled me to calculate speed from rpm. MY BIKES SEEMED TO DO THE SAME SPEED YET DIFFERENT WHEEL AND SPROCKET SIZES. YOU CAN SEE BELOW WHAT IT WAS. I just had to put in the front sprocket size and the rear wheel diameter. Here is the equation.
RPM =( ES/CS)X(FS/RS)x(3.1416X60XWD)/63360

ES = ENG SPROCKET, CS = CLUTCH SPROCKET, FS = FRONT SPROCKET, RS = REAR SPROCKET WD = REAR WHEEL DIAMETER.

I PUT IT INTO AN EXCELL PROGRAM TO MAKE IT EASY TO DO CALCS. NOTE 3.1416/63360 = 0.002975

TOP 4005.323396 26 57 21 42 0.228070175 3.1416 60 63360 0.002975 25.5 69.3 850 4000 + 69.3 MPH = 111 KPH

TOP 750 1810 REVS @ 30 MPH = 50 KPH 750 with 400x19 rear tyre 27" 3rd 2190 2nd 3077 1st 4633 4000 = 67 MPH OR 107 KPH

HAVE A NICE RIDE. ALL THE BEST, DERECK
 
PeterJoe said:
phil yates said:
I was kind of hoping that with the entire world's Norton experts at the tip of my fingers, one, just one of them would come up with a more scientific approach than that!! In 1973, I knew the figures i.e. mph per 1000rpm for 19T and 21T sprockets and I seem to recall there was no 20T option in that year. C/S sprocket was not even listed in the parts book. Not that it would help if it was.

In the factory service manual there is a chart for the speed of the motorcycle at 3 different RPM's using various countershaft sprockets. With that chart I was able to come up with a constant number for each sprocket size.Unfortunately the chart that Norton supplies is not 100% accurate, they rounded either up or down on their miles per hour. But here is what I came up with:

For a 19 tooth sprocket multiply the rpm by .0153 and that will give you the miles per hour. (Example 4000 rpm x .0153 = 61.2 mph)
For a 20 tooth sprocket multiply the rpm by .0161 to get the miles per hour
For a 21 tooth sprocket multiply the rpm by .0170 to get the miles per hour
For a 22 tooth sprocket multiply the rpm by .0177 to get the miles per hour
For a 23 tooth sprocket multiply the rpm by .0186 to get the miles per hour

These would be approximate miles per hour because I am working off Norton's chart. This is also assuming you have the original primary gearing and are in high gear.

A 4.10 x 18 rear tire seems a bit small in diameter for a Norton Commando and your speedometer reading would no doubt be incorrect. When it comes to tire replacement time, I would recommend finding an 18 inch tire that has an outside diameter closer to the original 19 inch tire.

Thanks Pete
That is EXACTLY what I was after. My 1973 "scientific" calculations were a lot cruder than that.
Yes 18" wheel with 4.10 tyre is a little small and speedo does over read as a result. I can work those percentages out no probs, to apply to your above information.

Thanks again
Phil
 
kerinorton said:
I got info of this site which enabled me to calculate speed from rpm. MY BIKES SEEMED TO DO THE SAME SPEED YET DIFFERENT WHEEL AND SPROCKET SIZES. YOU CAN SEE BELOW WHAT IT WAS. I just had to put in the front sprocket size and the rear wheel diameter. Here is the equation.
RPM =( ES/CS)X(FS/RS)x(3.1416X60XWD)/63360

ES = ENG SPROCKET, CS = CLUTCH SPROCKET, FS = FRONT SPROCKET, RS = REAR SPROCKET WD = REAR WHEEL DIAMETER.

I PUT IT INTO AN EXCELL PROGRAM TO MAKE IT EASY TO DO CALCS. NOTE 3.1416/63360 = 0.002975

TOP 4005.323396 26 57 21 42 0.228070175 3.1416 60 63360 0.002975 25.5 69.3 850 4000 + 69.3 MPH = 111 KPH

TOP 750 1810 REVS @ 30 MPH = 50 KPH 750 with 400x19 rear tyre 27" 3rd 2190 2nd 3077 1st 4633 4000 = 67 MPH OR 107 KPH

HAVE A NICE RIDE. ALL THE BEST, DERECK

I'll get back to you in a couple of weeks after I run this past my Vampire MkII calculator. If it doesn't blow its processor!
Thanks.
 
Phil,
As I can't remember the sprocket size I used ( I think it was a 22T), or maya be that was the one I removed?
When Jenny confirms how many teeth are on yours, if it's a 22 then get a 24T.
It's a fair job to change so you only want to do it once.
With the larger sprocket my Mk111 is a Gentlemans conveyance and it's the best tourer I've ever owned.
I did have the speedo re calibrated to suit the 18" rims and is fairly accurate.
And there is nothing wrong with the gear change, smooth and precise.

Graeme
 
About 4k and a little bit?
It's not with me at present as it's in a container in Tasmania waiting for us to move so I can't give you an exact answer.
But it is relaxed and still has plenty to overtake even loaded with the kitchen sink etc.
Still fun on the twisties until it scrapes. And that's too early, left side side stand is psfincter puckering and right side wears holes in the header.

Graeme
 
Thank you. not to be a nit picker,as you did say bike is not with you at this time, but are your numbers coming from stock speedo and tach? The only reason I'm asking is because my MPH was WAY off when checked against known good product. Don't take offense!! I'm not doubting your word, just trying to figure out if my tach or speedo is goofy (or both)
 
Tachometer is standard, speedo has been re calibrated to read 18" rims and Bridgestone Battleax tyres.
Speed is fairly accurate with my wife's Ducati.
3000revs in 4th is 50 ish mph.

Graeme

(Wish I had it handy so I could get a gps speed/revs for you)
(and get my wife to count the sprocket teeth)
 
GRM 450 said:
Phil,
As I can't remember the sprocket size I used ( I think it was a 22T), or maya be that was the one I removed?
When Jenny confirms how many teeth are on yours, if it's a 22 then get a 24T.
It's a fair job to change so you only want to do it once.
With the larger sprocket my Mk111 is a Gentlemans conveyance and it's the best tourer I've ever owned.
I did have the speedo re calibrated to suit the 18" rims and is fairly accurate.
And there is nothing wrong with the gear change, smooth and precise.

Graeme

Thanks Graeme
Jenny says it is somewhere between 19 and 22, and she's not getting back down there to be more precise.
I might as well have asked her how old she really is!
I think it's 20 (not Jenny…..she's 16) but the variables are a bit wobbly to be sure.
Speedo accuracy, tacho accuracy and wheel size all in the mix.
PeterJoe's calculations would indicate it is 19. But I'm sure it isn't.
The only reason I really care (apart from curiosity) is that I have a second one being built in the States for me,
and I want exactly the same gearing, including an 18" wheel.
I'm planning to get a digital cable less speedo (maybe won't bother with tacho) so will be interested to see
how they calibrate it re rear tyre circumference. Accuracy doesn't really worry me in particular, I never look at it anyway
given we are in kph and I only know 60mph is approx 100kph. I don't ride at any other speed, not even in the driveway.

Yes, gearbox is great on mine too. Maybe the tester had a worn linkage one but was too stupid to know it. Like testing a bike with a flat tyre and complaining about the steering. I don't know.
He's dead now so it doesn't matter.
 
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