Mk3 electric start

I want to replace the failed armature from the old Prestolite starter, with one from the Harley starter, has anyone else done this, will it fit? I was proposing to provide further support for the drive end by removing the oil seal and replacing with a narrow section sealed bearing. I have read here that some e/starts don't use the outboard shaft spigot and bush, or are they the ones that have already undertaken this modification? Alternatively what is the model number of the aftermarket electric motors which will bolt up to the existing setup please?

Desmond Tui said:

I want to replace the failed armature from the old Prestolite starter, with one from the Harley starter, has anyone else done this, will it fit? I was proposing to provide further support for the drive end by removing the oil seal and replacing with a narrow section sealed bearing. I have read here that some e/starts don't use the outboard shaft spigot and bush, or are they the ones that have already undertaken this modification? Alternatively what is the model number of the aftermarket electric motors which will bolt up to the existing setup please?

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You want the WASP e-starter from Dyno Dave.

I have a drawer full of assorted Norton E-start parts, including a Sportster starter armature -- it will not work. What you want is to use the Norton armature in the 4-pole Prestolite Sportster starter field assembly. After you assemble that and get it clocked properly and working, you will find that you need to use larger cables from the battery and relay to the starter. After you do that, you'll find that the battery will not provide enough oomph to start the motor. A Goldwing 1500 battery can be made to fit, only just. It's a challenge to get it in but it can be done. After all that, you'll find that the torque-limiter/anti-backfire device won't stand the torque and makes very nasty noises. You can tighten the nut on the device a little to reduce this tendency but if you go too far it will destroy the sprag clutch. The spec is 50 ft. lbs. I set mine to about 58-60 and it seems to work, mostly. Sometimes it still makes the nasty noise but then I'm confident that it's releasing as it should. So if you want to go down this path, have the Norton armature rewound. In the end it's quite satisfactory but it was a many year process to get here and I worked in a Norton shop where we removed E-start assemblies at owner's request, trashed them and blocked off the starter hole. That's where I got all the parts.

Hello Desmond, I have aMk3 that starts good, as stated depending to where you are I suggest first obtain a Prestolite starter off a Mercury outboard possibly 80's era, as stated also fit the battery cables from Andover and fit as big a battery as you can- i am running a YTX16BS but my research tells me that a YTX20chbs is the same measurements, lastly as has been previously stated here a new sprag bearing from Ali Express is recommended.

If you have the skill and resources you can use the prestolites drive gear and graft it into the harley rotor (the harley drive gear is too big). At the same time modify the harley rotor to accept a 6203 2RS bearing. Make a fill in piece and bond it into the drive end plate so you can machine the plate to accept the 6203. The 5780BN starter that is sold worldwide is the replacement for the harley prestolite (the price i paid for the last half dozen i bought was approx £56 each, they have gone up 40% since then) . I convert these to fit the commando and have used spare 5780BN rotors to replace dud prestolite armatures (got the spare 5780 BN rotors from people who had only used the 5780BN four pole frame on their prestolites). The 5780BN starter is far better made than the prestolite and when i convert them i have to make the drive gear and fit it to the rotor.

Torontonian said:

You want the WASP e-starter from Dyno Dave.

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WOSP and dynodave starters are not the same product.
Post in thread 'New Starter what type?' https://www.accessnorton.com/NortonCommando/new-starter-what-type.31844/post-505207

possm said:

Hello Desmond, I have aMk3 that starts good, as stated depending to where you are I suggest first obtain a Prestolite starter off a Mercury outboard possibly 80's era, as stated also fit the battery cables from Andover and fit as big a battery as you can- i am running a YTX16BS but my research tells me that a YTX20chbs is the same measurements, lastly as has been previously stated here a new sprag bearing from Ali Express is recommended.

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Yes I have the sprag bearing, but the the starter packed up, It used to work really well, till I had some ignition problems, and it got a work out and got to hot.

Go with the DynoDave starter… if you really want an E-start… great engine turnover…great support and you can get it in chrome… I like bling!
Rod

Over many years i fiddled with my starter in an effort to make it work .... I rebuilt my original 2 brush ..Nope . I bought a brand new 2 brush because i had read that it would work .... Nope . I bought all the necessary pieces to make a 4 brush conversion with the high output field coils . Nope . Electrical cables big enough that you can tow a bus with ..Nope .. YTX 14AHL AGM 210 CCA battery .. Nope

Frustrated , i decided it was just as easy to just give it a kick ... In 2011 i met Dave Comeau for the first time at the INOA Rally .. I shared my pain and misery with him and he told me all the reasons why i should buy his starter .. I left with a wealth of knowledge although apprehensive of the guy who sounded somewhat like a car salesman ...... 8 years passed and i was happy to kick it over ,however the idea of having an electric start and having one that worked continuously ate at me .. In 2019 i decided enough was enough and purchased the Dyno Dave starter .. Bolted it on , hooked up the same cables and using the same battery .........................

Dave ..... If you are reading this , i still don't trust car salesmen but you sir definitely came up with a product that works very well . I wish i had gone this route years ago .

Cheers

Ron Hulton said:

Over many years i fiddled with my starter in an effort to make it work .... I rebuilt my original 2 brush ..Nope . I bought a brand new 2 brush because i had read that it would work .... Nope . I bought all the necessary pieces to make a 4 brush conversion with the high output field coils . Nope . Electrical cables big enough that you can tow a bus with ..Nope .. YTX 14AHL AGM 210 CCA battery .. Nope

Frustrated , i decided it was just as easy to just give it a kick ... In 2011 i met Dave Comeau for the first time at the INOA Rally .. I shared my pain and misery with him and he told me all the reasons why i should buy his starter .. I left with a wealth of knowledge although apprehensive of the guy who sounded somewhat like a car salesman ...... 8 years passed and i was happy to kick it over ,however the idea of having an electric start and having one that worked continuously ate at me .. In 2019 i decided enough was enough and purchased the Dyno Dave starter .. Bolted it on , hooked up the same cables and using the same battery .........................

Dave ..... If you are reading this , i still don't trust car salesmen but you sir definitely came up with a product that works very well . I wish i had gone this route years ago .

Cheers

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Just to back up what others have said, just buy the Dyno Dave starter motor, it is lighter, spins faster, more torque and draws less current.IT JUST WORKS. If you do buy one, make sure you also buy the heavy duty cable kit as well .they are a good thing too. Brett

possm said:

Hello Desmond, I have aMk3 that starts good, as stated depending to where you are I suggest first obtain a Prestolite starter off a Mercury outboard possibly 80's era, as stated also fit the battery cables from Andover and fit as big a battery as you can- i am running a YTX16BS but my research tells me that a YTX20chbs is the same measurements, lastly as has been previously stated here a new sprag bearing from Ali Express is recommended.

Click to expand...

Thanks, Yes have fitted the Ali express sprag, right after that I burned the Armature out, Grrr!
I would like to source one from the Mercury outboards, does anyone have the relevant part numbers Please?

A friend with a Mark III told me that all he did years ago was replace the OEM cables with larger ones, cleaned up/lubricated the factory starter and ensured that the timing was accurately set/advance was properly operating (OEM points/AAU). He says that was the extent of his work. I can confirm that it starts with no problem though since I wasn't involved in any of the work he did, I am taking his word (and memory) re the specifics.

Desmond Tui said:

Thanks, Yes have fitted the Ali express sprag, right after that I burned the Armature out, Grrr!
I would like to source one from the Mercury outboards, does anyone have the relevant part numbers Please?

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06-4791B (or ...C)

My new to me Mk 3 e start question:
Every now and then on my bike the starter makes a grrrrr noise when hitting the button. I try again and it starts normally. Is this grrrrr noise a failing sprag? or the back fire device? What are the symptoms ? sounds? of each when they start failing. It has a four brush conversion Prestolite and heavy cables.
Thanks Steve

The Grrrr sound is the torque limiter doing its job. If you hold the clutch lever in while starting, it will have less tendency to release. When the sprags go bad it usually won't engage at all and the starter spins free, making a wheeee sound. Occasionally, when they self destruct all the little peices grind themselves up in the primary case with unpleasant results. If the sprags flip over, which happens when they are worn, the clutch will reverse direction and if the motor catches and revs, it will spin the starter so fast the armature explodes. When this happens the armature can be removed from the field case with a hydraulic press. The field can probably be reused but the armature is toast.

Thomasa said:

The Grrrr sound is the torque limiter doing its job. If you hold the clutch lever in while starting, it will have less tendency to release. When the sprags go bad it usually won't engage at all and the starter spins free, making a wheeee sound. Occasionally, when they self destruct all the little pieces grind themselves up in the primary case with unpleasant results. If the sprags flip over, which happens when they are worn, the clutch will reverse direction and if the motor catches and revs, it will spin the starter so fast the armature explodes. When this happens the armature can be removed from the field case with a hydraulic press. The field can probably be reused but the armature is toast.

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Thanks for the reply. I'll now keep the clutch pulled in while starting.
Thanks Steve

Hi Desmond, what part of the Country are you? I suggest you find an outboard wrecker and take your old starter in and compare.
there is or was one in Blenheim.

Desmond Tui said:

I want to replace the failed armature from the old Prestolite starter, with one from the Harley starter, has anyone else done this, will it fit? I was proposing to provide further support for the drive end by removing the oil seal and replacing with a narrow section sealed bearing. I have read here that some e/starts don't use the outboard shaft spigot and bush, or are they the ones that have already undertaken this modification? Alternatively what is the model number of the aftermarket electric motors which will bolt up to the existing setup please?

Click to expand...

The Harley armature can be modified to work with considerable machine work. Several years ago I asked this question and a well respected fellow lister told me he had/could modify the Harley armature to work. However, I don't know that he is still willing to do this. I have always been successful with refurbishing the Norton armature and with the drive end of the Norton unit, build a strong starter from a new aftermarket Harley unit.

possm said:

Hi Desmond, what part of the Country are you? I suggest you find an outboard wrecker and take your old starter in and compare.
there is or was one in Blenheim.

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Ok I will follow that up when I go to the rally next year, thanks, I am in Taranaki.

Dyno Dave starter - fit & forget (spins it over like a jap bike)