Mark Williams, Running out of Road

SteveBorland

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Nov 15, 2010
Messages
773
Country flag
For those who, like myself, were fascinated by the ramblings of Mark
Williams in the early days of Bike magazine, this may be of interest.
He is starting a new blog site, where he promises to bring:

" BEING A METICULOUSLY SLUNG–TOGETHER SELECTION OF MARK WILLIAMS’
COLUMNS IN VARIOUS MAGAZINES THAT SHOULD’VE KNOWN BETTER FROM 1971–2020…
FORTY-NINE INGLORIOUS YEARS OF CONTROVERSIAL VIEWS, WILD CLAIMS AND
MINDLESS NONSENSE ON MATTERS MOTORCYCLING"

https://runningoutofroad.uk/

Not to everyone's taste of course, but then I've been an avid reader of
his for 49 years...
 
I don’t even know why mine fell out.

Natures way of telling you something? Certainly the power of Mark Williams words seem to shrink with hair loss.. He was the first journalist to point tosome of the problems of the Commando and he implied there was something odd going on down in the Midlands .. An observation which drew the ire of NVT.. Perhaps he was right and those of us who thought for a long time that Poore was simply out of his depth (myself included ) were wrong .
 
Hmmm, I’m not one of those who thinks Poore was all bad. And given his business background, I find it hard to believe he was out of his depth either.

I believe we miss the Meriden effect out of the historical conversation. Poore took over NVT to turn it around. Before he’d really got started the Meriden situation took off. That took 18 months to settle, clearly screwing up two seasons. And when it was done, Meriden and the Bonneville were no longer NVT. Poore could neither sell Meriden for a huge cash injection as he had planned, nor sell thousands of Bonnevilles for cash flow as he had planned. Two massive cards just taken from his hand, but he was still expected to carry on and succeed as if nowt had happened !
 
I think the main problem with NVT was the Commando engine was too big. If it had been short stroked to about 75mm, the vibration problems might have been more easily cured. It might have made an excellent 650. A motor does not have to be 850cc to be powerful enough for a fast road bike. The Atlas was good, but had problems - it's capacity was probably about the upper limit of what could be good. The Paton 500 design could have been stretched to 650cc.
 
If we were being honest - a 650cc Triumph Bonneville is probably fast enough for any road user.
 
Al, here’s a suggestion you may wish to ponder...

Go to your nearest Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Triumph, Ducati, BMW, KTM, heck... even HD dealer and test ride a couple of real life modern large capacity motorcycles.

You might re think that 650 Triumph comment...
 
Hmmm, I’m not one of those who thinks Poore was all bad. And given his business background, I find it hard to believe he was out of his depth either.

I believe we miss the Meriden effect out of the historical conversation. Poore took over NVT to turn it around. Before he’d really got started the Meriden situation took off. That took 18 months to settle, clearly screwing up two seasons. And when it was done, Meriden and the Bonneville were no longer NVT. Poore could neither sell Meriden for a huge cash injection as he had planned, nor sell thousands of Bonnevilles for cash flow as he had planned. Two massive cards just taken from his hand, but he was still expected to carry on and succeed as if nowt had happened !

But he did get another 4 million from the Govt , his asking price for selling Meridan to the Co-op , and earlierhe got 4 million from the Heath gov to purchase BSA -Triumph , along with a sweetheart deal for BSA shares, and before that , he got a huge pay out for the old AMC factory which was compulsory purchased for a ring road and presumably a big relocation grant t go to Andover,sowhether shrewdmoves or serendipity:he never actually succeeded in 'growing' a business . The Commando did little more than just about break even in financial terms.

He retained profitable BSA assets forthe family parent Manganese Holding company which were the mainstay of Manganese Bronze long after the end of NVT and indeed his premature death. But he missedthe big picture that in the 70s only the public sector was likely to come up with the requisite funds. Boston Consulting Suggested £40 million fr an industry that could compete with Japan.

Certainly not all bad by any means .. without Poore there wouldhave been no Commando but I struggle to see him as being other than out of his depth or for that matter as a 'businessman' . Whatever one might think of or want to say about Poore,it always comes back with a' not proven' verdict
Yes he had a good eye for a product , but not much of an idea on how to see it actually being profitably produced.. The roteries would surely have required a huge investment, and entirely unsuitable for a shoe string operation

And,Meridan was after all a comparatively successful enterprise. It had never made a loss and its products were better known inthe US and had a big following. And it was amuch ,much bigger undertaking than Norton. Even for an industrialist of consumate diplomatic skills it wouldhave been a bitof a headache to handle.Never easy for a sprat to swallow a whale.

NVT let it be known that they were going to closeSmall Heath and sell off BSA but keep Meridan then, after having laid off most of the Small Heath workforce they do an about turn in what probably wouldhave seemed more like a declarartion of war. This was not how to run a business.. especially when you are already embroiled with the DTI.

What really puzzles me is that the then Labour government, were ,a few years later, quite willing to actually spend money to shut the industry down. It would havebeen cheaper to make a further substantial investment.. 9,000 jobs is alot of unemployment benefit not tomention loss of export earnings etc.

Is it too cynical to suggest moral cowardice ? Benn had gone fromthe DTI and placemen and women were inthe ascendency they did not want t o beseen getting involved with ' nationalisation' workers coops etc .especially for nasty oily noisy motorbikes. British Leyland of course would be a diiferent matter



Ironically after the 1979 election and with NorthSea oil on tap it would have probably attracted money either from the jingoistic Thatcher or even the city .

However the Mark Williams . They are a perspective on a troubled Britain at a troubled time. I am not saying he was trying to speak truth topower or even to NVT but worth looking at.
 
Last edited:
Good post Mike. They were complicated times for sure, I guess it’d take a far deeper analysis than we can do to get to the bottom of every part of the web in this history. I doubt anyone ever will in fact.
 
But he did get another 4 million from the Govt , his asking price for selling Meridan to the Co-op , and earlierhe got 4 million from the Heath gov to purchase BSA -Triumph , along with a sweetheart deal for BSA shares, and before that , he got a huge pay out for the old AMC factory which was compulsory purchased for a ring road and presumably a big relocation grant t go to Andover,sowhether shrewdmoves or serendipity:he never actually succeeded in 'growing' a business . The Commando did little more than just about break even in financial terms.

He retained profitable BSA assets forthe family parent Manganese Holding company which were the mainstay of Manganese Bronze long after the end of NVT and indeed his premature death. But he missedthe big picture that in the 70s only the public sector was likely to come up with the requisite funds. Boston Consulting Suggested £40 million fr an industry that could compete with Japan.

Certainly not all bad by any means .. without Poore there wouldhave been no Commando but I struggle to see him as being other than out of his depth or for that matter as a 'businessman' . Whatever one might think of or want to say about Poore,it always comes back with a' not proven' verdict
Yes he had a good eye for a product , but not much of an idea on how to see it actually being profitably produced.. The roteries would surely have required a huge investment, and entirely unsuitable for a shoe string operation

And,Meridan was after all a comparatively successful enterprise. It had never made a loss and its products were better known inthe US and had a big following. And it was amuch ,much bigger undertaking than Norton. Even for an industrialist of consumate diplomatic skills it wouldhave been a bitof a headache to handle.Never easy for a sprat to swallow a whale.

NVT let it be known that they were going to closeSmall Heath and sell off BSA but keep Meridan then, after having laid off most of the Small Heath workforce they do an about turn in what probably wouldhave seemed more like a declarartion of war. This was not how to run a business.. especially when you are already embroiled with the DTI.

What really puzzles me is that the then Labour government, were ,a few years later, quite willing to actually spend money to shut the industry down. It would havebeen cheaper to make a further substantial investment.. 9,000 jobs is alot of unemployment benefit not tomention loss of export earnings etc.

Is it too cynical to suggest moral cowardice ? Benn had gone fromthe DTI and placemen and women were inthe ascendency they did not want t o beseen getting involved with ' nationalisation' workers coops etc .especially for nasty oily noisy motorbikes. British Leyland of course would be a diiferent matter



Ironically after the 1979 election and with NorthSea oil on tap it would have probably attracted money either from the jingoistic Thatcher or even the city .

However the Mark Williams . They are a perspective on a troubled Britain at a troubled time. I am not saying he was trying to speak truth topower or even to NVT but worth looking at.

As we all know, the best way to make a small fortune in the motor industry is to start off with a large one!
 
Good post Mike. They were complicated times for sure, I guess it’d take a far deeper analysis than we can do to get to the bottom of every part of the web in this history. I doubt anyone ever will in fact.

I fear you are right; and, even if they did ,its unlikely to disturb favored narratives.
 
I didnt like Mark Wiliams back in the day, and having re-read the articles in the blog linked to, I still dont.

But, on the subject of old journalists, I have been reading some of L J K Setright's writing. When he wrote for Bike magazine 45+ years ago, I thought he was rather pretentious, but now I appreciate his writing a lot more. "Long lane with turnings" is a good read. I suspect James May is one of few writers who has Setright's ability to appreciate and write about fine engineering.

Setright wrote several motorcycle books, and I am currently reading 'The power to fly', a history of early (piston) aero engines.
 
Back
Top