Maney gearbox outrigger bearing: help please...

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Ok good catch on hobot misplacing a decimal point's grammar confusion, so better if i's written: a hand full, like half a dozen thousandths aka .00Xth's for ~.006". For sure a throttled up main shaft with new box innards will deflect more than that w/o the back up so Steve Maney knew what he was doing. 1.5 mm, .060" would not work nearly as well but would still be effective back up on a rather worn set of sleeve bushes. Can go to a bearing store and get one closer fitting.
 
Right chaps, my .060" was a red herring, I must have sneezed just as I measured it ! :oops:

It's still bigger than the ideal figures you guys mentioned. It is not the supplier Acotrel, the I believe the bearing is correct. It is clear that the output shaft has been 'cleaned up' a little, so that's where the anomaly is coming from.

The gap is closer to .020" so I'm just gonna crack on with getting it nailed in now. Back off t' shed...
 
Could have the main shaft plated and turned down for more comfortable fit. Copper would likely work a good while and fairly straight forward-cheap with electric motor repair shops. Best would be chrome but many issues to consider if going that route. Copper work hardens btw way and mostly shouldn't slip in the closer fit out rigger anyway.
 
hobot said:
Could have the main shaft plated and turned down for more comfortable fit. Copper would likely work a good while and fairly straight forward-cheap with electric motor repair shops. Best would be chrome but many issues to consider if going that route. Copper work hardens btw way and mostly shouldn't slip in the closer fit out rigger anyway.
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That's an option I guess Steve, but it would probably be as cheap, and much less hassle, just to replace the shaft! Either way, it ain't something I'm doing now. It'll be going together as-is. It can get 'finessed' this winter!
 
eddie,are you using std Norton sleeve gear or quaife? the reason I ask is that my maney outrigger kit was a perfect sliding fit on a std sleeve gear but not so with the quaife there was more clearance,i don't know how much because I did,nt measure it, as you know, by feel you can tell if one sleeve gear is looser than the other,steve recommended Loctite bearing fit, chris
 
When you think about it, do you really want to rely on a sealed bearing spinning at roughly 1/2 the engine speed all the time? Probably good to have a little slop in there so the outrigger bearing is not "hooked up" 100% of the time. Anybody grab the end of the main shaft and give it a wobble. I'd say you probably have mmore than 0.020" slop before you even begin to bend the shaft.

As I see it, most outriggers were developed for racers and not long term touring. The outrigger is there to "catch" and "mitigate" the major deflections with high inputs such as hard on the throttle, launching and shifting. I am not suggesting an outrigger bearing is a bad thing for touring Nortons but it will become a maintenance item.

Just my two pence worth.
 
chris plant said:
eddie,are you using std Norton sleeve gear or quaife? the reason I ask is that my maney outrigger kit was a perfect sliding fit on a std sleeve gear but not so with the quaife there was more clearance,i don't know how much because I did,nt measure it, as you know, by feel you can tell if one sleeve gear is looser than the other,steve recommended Loctite bearing fit, chris
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If I recall correctly, the Steve Maney outrigger supports the layshaft and not the end of the gear. I owned a couple of them and don't remember them going over the sleeve gear end.
 
Chris, thanks. I'll take your word for it as I am away from the shop and bits. I looked at the Steve Maney site and the bore does look bigger than for a layshaft alone.

I think my confusion came with using the Steve Maney outrigger with a Dave Nourish five speed conversion. I seem to recall in that instance, the only option is for the bearing to ride on a sleeve on the layshaft (Nourish layshaft.

I like the support the outrigger supplies unfortunately it is still only a sealed bearing fo rthe duty - even if it is running with the sleeve gear.
 
Too bad no way to further support the lay shaft contained inside AMC box, so its only the clutch end of AMC main shafts its meant to surround. Of course its for racers and others racing around enough to torque the long stalk to put a bow in shaft binding-wearing sleeve bushes to even twist-bending shafts. The sealed bearing should lasts many 1000's of miles and can easy check clutch wobble when to eventually renew it. It is a ticket to mis behave more and get away with it and save more to spend on replacing the poor ole rear tires.
 
Why not phone/email Steve Maney, and ask him what clearance he would expect to see, and then ask him if he would be happy with the clearance that you have? ....easy peasy
cheers
wakeup
 
hobot said:
The sealed bearing should lasts many 1000's of miles .......
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Not so sure about that Steve unless you have run a few for "many 1000's of miles"; otherwise it sounds like a bit of wishful thinking.

In first gear the sleeve gear and outrigger bearing are turning about 1/8 engine speed but by 4th gear lock up it is turning at 1/2 engine speed. I think one is asking a lot for a greased and sealed bearing to last long at say 2,000 rpm (half a 4,000 rpm engine cruising speed). The carrier bearing in the gear box is splash lube replenished with oil (not sealed). The engine main bearings are spray/mist lubricated (not sealed). Even the clutch hub with a sealed bearing on the dry belt drives only sees a little action when the clutch lever gets pulled in and I have changed a few sealed clutch hub bearings already.
 
Well shoot if ya run the snot out of an AMC Commando trying to max out then its expected to use up expensive stuff going away fast. i dare say that one Maney power level race would be worth most the life time stress and strain of public use as not likely to be able sustaining WOT very long at a time. If ya think Maney's kit is not enduring enough then best skip it or create one that is. Oh yeah - main shaft's ability to hold clutch end from wobbles and bowing-twisting in the middle depends to a great degree on the sleeve bushes clearances, which the out rigger goes a good ways to protect said clearances. We are talking about AMC gut straining power plays aren't we, not sane protective operation, sheeze. I get way more flash backs/grins form a few minutes ZINGs here and there than out of state weekend rally trips. Do ping Maney for his report so we really know what baseline is expected.
 
Steve, good sleeve bushing condition sure goes a long way in holding alignment inside the gear box and probably helps a bit with reducing flexing across the main shaft inside the box.

pete.v said:
I am not sure you are clear here, but the outrigger bearing rides on the mainshaft, not the sleeve gear.
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Now I am confused. I am about 1,100 miles from my shop so cannot check mine but you may very well be correct and the two pictures I see earlier in the thread appear to support what you are saying. I just don't mess with them much anymore (using TTI boxes).

If the outrigger is on the main shaft (instead of the sleeve) then it is spinning at roughly 1/2 the engine speed - even worse.
 
Duh questionable out rigger bearing rides immediately behind the clutch on main shaft a few inches from the sleeve bushes and gear inside shell.
 
hello, is there an engineer out there looking at this??????
All bearings should be a tight fit in the shafts they are supporting or shoulld be locked to the shaft by the correct method.
Most electic motors run sealed bearings which can do 1000's of hours. [ 1 hour = equivalent of 60 mph ]
Would you fit a new superblend to your cranckshaft if it had 20thou clearance??????.
Norton said the swing arm pin should be an easy slide fit [ what utter bullshit. Its a king pin and all king pins are a tight fit in the axle or they will flogg out ]
Think---- Dont speculate
 
Been asembling bearings-shafts for 45 years, and twenty thou clearance is useless! Bearings are designed to support a shaft ..in most cases....and a "loose" gap between the bearing inner or outer race's will not correctly support the two items...at worst the bearing {in this application] should be a PUSH fit...020 Twenty thou is 100% Incorrect! In this case a firm push fit .or a very light tap fit is right...i have no doubt that fast eddie.s application will do nothing to support the two parts..
 
john robert bould said:
Been asembling bearings-shafts for 45 years, and twenty thou clearance is useless! Bearings are designed to support a shaft ..in most cases....and a "loose" gap between the bearing inner or outer race's will not correctly support the two items...at worst the bearing {in this application] should be a PUSH fit...020 Twenty thou is 100% Incorrect! In this case a firm push fit .or a very light tap fit is right...i have no doubt that fast eddie.s application will do nothing to support the two parts. To say all bearings should be a tight fit isn't quite right ,a car clutch release bearing is loose on the gearbox shaft...but thats getting way off this subject!
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Norton swing are spindle, for ease of assembley the pin push's throgh the arm/frame..then locked in the frame with two bolts..on my old ERF truck the king pins where retained by taper bolts..the shaft tapped in . A Hammered in shaft is a bad idea..as the location is not protected from water,grime. Future disassemblely could be an issue if tight to start with.


kerinorton said:
hello, is there an engineer out there looking at this??????
All bearings should be a tight fit in the shafts they are supporting or shoulld be locked to the shaft by the correct method.
Most electic motors run sealed bearings which can do 1000's of hours. [ 1 hour = equivalent of 60 mph ]
Would you fit a new superblend to your cranckshaft if it had 20thou clearance??????.
Norton said the swing arm pin should be an easy slide fit [ what utter bullshit. Its a king pin and all king pins are a tight fit in the axle or they will flogg out ]
Think---- Dont speculate
Click to expand...
 
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