lambda delete resistors

kanenas

Joined
Jul 22, 2021
Messages
48
Country flag
I read just about everything regarding the lambda delete thread, even went over to the Triumph forum for more. It is interesting to see so many different opinions. My personal view is that a proper system should use a wideband sensor, the narrow band should have never been considered, however I have a little time to experiment I am considering unplugging my O2 sensors and adding in the resistors of the delete thread. I have no plans of totally removing the sensors and the test will be of short duration, don't expect problems with the sensors by leaving them plugged in for a few short runs. Since the plan is to use my own resistors I started paying attention to the values of the resistors and I found some serious discrepancies:
Back in April of '18 it is said that a 1megohm resistor is placed across the heater wires of the sensor, the signal wires have a 330 ohm resistor connecting them. In the Triumph forum the information is quite different: The 330 ohm resistor is said to be connected to the heater and the 1meg resistor to the signal. That seems to be quite a large value for a signal resistor. Later on the value of the signal resistor dropped down to 1kiloohm!!!! This definitely does not compute! The signal resistor can not arbitrarily be changed by a factor of 1000. Another issue is that the reason the "heater" side connection exists is to prevent a "check engine" light, but, when looking at the wiring diagrams, the "heater" connection is totally independent and gives no signal of any sort to anything, the relay just turns the juice to the heater.
Can anyone more knowledgeable on these issues please chime in?
Thanks in advance,
d.
 
I'd approach it differently.

Take the sensor values as seen by the ECU, use the logging software to record them and compare for the duration of a run.
 
Gojuu said:
I'd approach it differently.

Take the sensor values as seen by the ECU, use the logging software to record them and compare for the duration of a run.
Click to expand...
This is a very thoughtful approach and should provide good information.
 
kanenas said:
I read just about everything regarding the lambda delete thread, even went over to the Triumph forum for more. It is interesting to see so many different opinions. My personal view is that a proper system should use a wideband sensor, the narrow band should have never been considered, however I have a little time to experiment I am considering unplugging my O2 sensors and adding in the resistors of the delete thread. I have no plans of totally removing the sensors and the test will be of short duration, don't expect problems with the sensors by leaving them plugged in for a few short runs. Since the plan is to use my own resistors I started paying attention to the values of the resistors and I found some serious discrepancies:
Back in April of '18 it is said that a 1megohm resistor is placed across the heater wires of the sensor, the signal wires have a 330 ohm resistor connecting them. In the Triumph forum the information is quite different: The 330 ohm resistor is said to be connected to the heater and the 1meg resistor to the signal. That seems to be quite a large value for a signal resistor. Later on the value of the signal resistor dropped down to 1kiloohm!!!! This definitely does not compute! The signal resistor can not arbitrarily be changed by a factor of 1000. Another issue is that the reason the "heater" side connection exists is to prevent a "check engine" light, but, when looking at the wiring diagrams, the "heater" connection is totally independent and gives no signal of any sort to anything, the relay just turns the juice to the heater.
Can anyone more knowledgeable on these issues please chime in?
Thanks in advance,
d.
Click to expand...
Hi , I don't think I am more knowledgeable but I was involved in the O2 sensor delete thread on this forum. First , the values were not arbitrarily chosen , but these were the values found on the O2 sensor delete plugs available at that time for the Aprilia style O2 delete plugs . I spent a great deal of time verifying which wires of the 4 wires were what white , white , grey , black . Second , it would be unwise to install a smaller value then (1 meg ohm) resistor across the heater wires unless you want to run up the current and heat in that circuit needlessly . Third , the value of the signal voltage of a narrow band O2 sensor is small (less than (.5v) when its ON target . This dictates that a low value ohms resistor needs to be used to be able to simulate this. So , good luck with your effort and please let us know how it goes .
 
Gojuu said:
I'd approach it differently.

Take the sensor values as seen by the ECU, use the logging software to record them and compare for the duration of a run.
Click to expand...
I thought the Omex ecu is locked and we can not get anything out of it. Can you point me in the right direction?
 
kanenas said:
I read just about everything regarding the lambda delete thread, even went over to the Triumph forum for more. It is interesting to see so many different opinions. My personal view is that a proper system should use a wideband sensor, the narrow band should have never been considered, however I have a little time to experiment I am considering unplugging my O2 sensors and adding in the resistors of the delete thread. I have no plans of totally removing the sensors and the test will be of short duration, don't expect problems with the sensors by leaving them plugged in for a few short runs. Since the plan is to use my own resistors I started paying attention to the values of the resistors and I found some serious discrepancies:
Back in April of '18 it is said that a 1megohm resistor is placed across the heater wires of the sensor, the signal wires have a 330 ohm resistor connecting them. In the Triumph forum the information is quite different: The 330 ohm resistor is said to be connected to the heater and the 1meg resistor to the signal. That seems to be quite a large value for a signal resistor. Later on the value of the signal resistor dropped down to 1kiloohm!!!! This definitely does not compute! The signal resistor can not arbitrarily be changed by a factor of 1000. Another issue is that the reason the "heater" side connection exists is to prevent a "check engine" light, but, when looking at the wiring diagrams, the "heater" connection is totally independent and gives no signal of any sort to anything, the relay just turns the juice to the heater.
Can anyone more knowledgeable on these issues please chime in?
Thanks in advance,
d.
Click to expand...
Can you tell us what you are experiencing that makes you want to try this ?
 
kanenas said:
I thought the Omex ecu is locked and we can not get anything out of it. Can you point me in the right direction?
Click to expand...
Sorry @kanenas I have an SCS ecu so have answered for that. I’m not much help with an Omex. It might support an odb port, but I suspect its a long shot.
 
kanenas said:
I thought the Omex ecu is locked and we can not get anything out of it. Can you point me in the right direction?
Click to expand...
You asked about this before and were provided information on uinlocking. Go back to your own message about this
 
You also had issues with fueling and something with the coil. Was all that sorted?
 
yea that was sorted. The root cause was heavy vibration of the coil / battery bracket that about a year ago had actually broken the bracket, had it welded it back, also used some epoxy between bracket and frame to minimize vibration amplitude,
the vibration finally took the coil down. New coil fixed it, fuel was never an issue. After that I started looking again at ecu threads because I have always known that I am running with a rich map. When I first bought the bike Matt Capri installed *his* pipes at the dealership and then he got too cautious
and made the map rich. The deal was that I was going to send him the ecu back in a few months, after break in, alas, they closed about 3 months later, I still have the original map!!!! The pipes DO work ( not just great sound but real go on the highway )and I bet that I not only I get
considerably more power with some tuning, so i do need to make my own map. I have great experience with megasquirt ( 2 mercedes 560SEL's for almost 6 years each with no issues and great performance and economy) and I am thinking about it again, also I am
considering the delta package. My current ecu is a 630, the wiring that best matches is a 2015 euro3 post by Stu (thanks again and again Stu) so I guess I will be playing around. It would be great to see what is happening with the current map but
I am not aware of a way to do any data logging, is there? The possibility of any physical support is absolutely non existent, the bike is in Hawaii, the only 961 within a 3000 radius, so everything to be done would be by me. Any suggestions accepted, but I would like to keep this thread only about the resistors.
after i try them I will probably start another thread on ecus. Currently the plan is to start with 330 ohms at the signal and leave the heater open because it does not send a signal anywhere according to my wiring diagram, it just consumes a little battery juice.
 
kanenas said:
yea that was sorted. The root cause was heavy vibration of the coil / battery bracket that about a year ago had actually broken the bracket, had it welded it back, also used some epoxy between bracket and frame to minimize vibration amplitude,
the vibration finally took the coil down. New coil fixed it, fuel was never an issue. After that I started looking again at ecu threads because I have always known that I am running with a rich map. When I first bought the bike Matt Capri installed *his* pipes at the dealership and then he got too cautious
and made the map rich. The deal was that I was going to send him the ecu back in a few months, after break in, alas, they closed about 3 months later, I still have the original map!!!! The pipes DO work ( not just great sound but real go on the highway )and I bet that I not only I get
considerably more power with some tuning, so i do need to make my own map. I have great experience with megasquirt ( 2 mercedes 560SEL's for almost 6 years each with no issues and great performance and economy) and I am thinking about it again, also I am
considering the delta package. My current ecu is a 630, the wiring that best matches is a 2015 euro3 post by Stu (thanks again and again Stu) so I guess I will be playing around. It would be great to see what is happening with the current map but
I am not aware of a way to do any data logging, is there? The possibility of any physical support is absolutely non existent, the bike is in Hawaii, the only 961 within a 3000 radius, so everything to be done would be by me. Any suggestions accepted, but I would like to keep this thread only about the resistors.
after i try them I will probably start another thread on ecus. Currently the plan is to start with 330 ohms at the signal and leave the heater open because it does not send a signal anywhere according to my wiring diagram, it just consumes a little battery juice.
Click to expand...
You can probably get Stu BodyCote to download a good map for that OMEX . You will have to send him the ECU , but if I am not mistaken he has the OMEX software , cables , maps and another bike if he needs that too. You should PM him about it..
 
Thanks for the suggestions:) There is quite a bit of work before I decide how to proceed, I will post on a good part of it.
And yesterday I tried the 330 ohm resistors across the signal pins of the ecu connectors, no connection on the heater pins. To my surprise I had a smooth idle! I guess I will play with the resistors a little more. Now going to the shop to pick up a scope, hopefully i can pull out some info out of this ecu.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top