Kicking Back!

I agree with Guido - I have Tri-Spark Classic-Twin on my 920 Commando - ever since I fitted it it has NEVER kicked-back (even with half-hearted kicking) - like the Pazon system the Tri-Spark is very tolerant of low battery volts - an excellent product.

Really the Tri-Spark ignition is that good!? Read some more stuff about it, I certainly like the sound of it not kicking back anymore. Might look into that in the future. I do always have to give it my all to kick it over, I'm not heavy! But yeah before starting this post I had done that a couple of times and halfway through the kick all of a sudden we were changing direction and my knee (and ankle actually) had a hard time dealing with that!

Thanks for all the info though, this is all good. Will take a better look at my rotor and that timing mark next week.

the spacing of the rotor as you describe will have NO effect on charging. a weak magnetic strength of the rotor will. if you live in a light on state or country my best advice is a three phase high output alternator kit.

Headfullofsnakes said:

I have discovered my rotor needs to be spaced out more too. It's sitting a too far in on the shaft, so not getting full coverage in the stator (if that makes sense!?).

I'm assuming this might be partly why I was running my battery low???

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Headfullofsnakes said:

Ok so I chucked a new battery in and she's going sweet and hasn't kicked back at all yet. So that's good news.

I have discovered my rotor needs to be spaced out more too. It's sitting a too far in on the shaft, so not getting full coverage in the stator (if that makes sense!?).

I'm assuming this might be partly why I was running my battery low???

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You can also reduce the spacers between the stator and the mounting studs. You can get them at the hardware store. Bring a micrometer to make sure you get three that are all the same. .375

as I stated it will have NO effect on alternator output. IIRC dyno dave did a test and found that you could have the rotor half way in the stator with NO drop in output.

pvisseriii said:

You can also reduce the spacers between the stator and the mounting studs. You can get them at the hardware store. Bring a micrometer to make sure you get three that are all the same. .375

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I never had a kickback on my bike. AAU and recently Pazon.

Dave
69S

Headfullofsnakes said:

Really the Tri-Spark ignition is that good!? Read some more stuff about it, I certainly like the sound of it not kicking back anymore. Might look into that in the future.

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Well the future is now. The Tri-Spark comes from down under and the only distributor is CNW and there is a waiting list to be on as they only get a small number ordered in because of some tax reason or something.
Anyway I have been waiting patiently for mine for over a month.
So, if you want one order it now and you might get it by the time you need it.

I recently took my Fluke meter and hooked the leads up to the battery and then strapped the meter to the top of my tank while I went for a ride. It was interesting to see how much voltage I was really making with my stock alternator set up. It is easy enough to do if you have questions about what your charging system is up too.

If it isn't coming up to 14 volts at cruising speed then you have something to sort out. If it is staying around 12v during your usually type of riding, then this would offer some explanation as to why a battery might be undercharged. If this is the case, the new battery will keep things going for awhile and then start to fade.

Russ

Pazon Altair works well for me and cheaper than Trispark ($297 NZD = $238 USD now with free shipping from NZ). It's a fairly new product and I've had it on my bike since August. Was considering Trispark but $329.95 plus $30 shipping from CNW killed that idea (especially the $30 shipping for something that could go in a small flat rate box. That kinda pissed me off.)

Nice to have some alternatives these days.

Nothing seems to ignite passion quite like a Tri Spark conversation.

result-tri-spark-t6483.html?hilit=tri spark

Tri Sparks also ignite Commandos. So that is two things the product is good at lighting off.

bill said:

as I stated it will have NO effect on alternator output. IIRC dyno dave did a test and found that you could have the rotor half way in the stator with NO drop in output.

pvisseriii said:

You can also reduce the spacers between the stator and the mounting studs. You can get them at the hardware store. Bring a micrometer to make sure you get three that are all the same. .375

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Click to expand...

Just exactly what were the parameters of his testing?

I would agree that at 2000rpm and above little difference will be seen. But what about at low rpm? A Lot of the belt drive hubs seem a little wider than the stock sprocket particularly with the plate that goes between the hub and rotor. I believe I have gained low rpm charging and increased efficiency by doing this. Along with attention to the air space between the stator and rotor, and although many people think I may be hallucinating, I see charging on my system at idle.

I cannot see why getting up on the rotor a little more is harmful. If there is sound reason why this should not be done I certainly need to here it.

FWIW 16a 200 watt stator, 200 watt pods unit with no capacitor, assimilator or any other out dated system drainage items. Pazon EI with 5ohm Dyna coil, 14 ah AGM battery. Everything else is "pretty" much stock.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qL9ZzIh3zfM&feature=player_detailpage[/video]

you will have to ask dyno dave as it has been a while we talked about this. there is no sound reason to do it or not do it except to watch your clearances. you can push the rotor out to far and get into the outer cover where the timing pointer is at and you can move the stator to far in and have issues on the drive interfering . as to seeing charging at idle if you have almost NO current draw and a top notch charging system you MIGHT see that, but how are you measuring the output to say it is charging as you need at least 13.2 to charge a 12 volt battery.

pvisseriii said:

Just exactly what were the parameters of his testing?

I would agree that at 2000rpm and above little difference will be seen. But what about at low rpm? A Lot of the belt drive hubs seem a little wider than the stock sprocket particularly with the plate that goes between the hub and rotor. I believe I have gained low rpm charging and increased efficiency by doing this. Along with attention to the air space between the stator and rotor, and although many people think I may be hallucinating, I see charging on my system at idle.

I cannot see why getting up on the rotor a little more is harmful. If there is sound reason why this should not be done I certainly need to here it.

FWIW 16a 200 watt stator, 200 watt pods unit with no capacitor, assimilator or any other out dated system drainage items. Pazon EI with 5ohm Dyna coil, 14 ah AGM battery. Everything else is "pretty" much stock

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I static timed my '73 stock 850 by using the 'in 4th gear turn the motor' method, wooded dowel down the plug hole,set primary chain case timing marks to 28 degrees, , fitted a Pazon Sure Fire electronic ignition , set that as per instructions ,(ie red dot showing through backing plate) started the bike and ran it,(started first prod) rode up a few long hills for about 15 mins, felt flat at the top end (retarded), had a friend rev it to 4000 rpm,rechecked timing with my high quailty strobe using another battery, found timing to be between 23 to 25 degrees, reason for easy start and flat on the hills, retimed Pazon plate to 31 degrees @ said 4000rpm, runs sweet and pulls from idle to 5000 rpm fantastic.(as I haven't had it long and don't know its history i haven't revved it over 5000rpm (yes I know wimp some will say!!!)
While I had the chain case cover off cleaned out both rotor timing marks, (no grease) painted with a red pearlescent nail polish(my daughtesr not mine!!!!) , wiped off excess to create fine line in rotor mark. Shows up a treat in the strobe for those with impaired sight!!!!
Can only say good things about Pazon, whatever model you choose, but then I only live 20 mins from Andrew, the guy who makes them here in NZ
Regards Mike

bill said:

you will have to ask dyno dave as it has been a while we talked about this. there is no sound reason to do it or not do it except to watch your clearances. you can push the rotor out to far and get into the outer cover where the timing pointer is at and you can move the stator to far in and have issues on the drive interfering . as to seeing charging at idle if you have almost NO current draw and a top notch charging system you MIGHT see that, but how are you measuring the output to say it is charging as you need at least 13.2 to charge a 12 volt battery.

pvisseriii said:

Just exactly what were the parameters of his testing?

I would agree that at 2000rpm and above little difference will be seen. But what about at low rpm? A Lot of the belt drive hubs seem a little wider than the stock sprocket particularly with the plate that goes between the hub and rotor. I believe I have gained low rpm charging and increased efficiency by doing this. Along with attention to the air space between the stator and rotor, and although many people think I may be hallucinating, I see charging on my system at idle.

I cannot see why getting up on the rotor a little more is harmful. If there is sound reason why this should not be done I certainly need to here it.

FWIW 16a 200 watt stator, 200 watt pods unit with no capacitor, assimilate or any other out dated system drainage items. Pazon EI with 5ohm Dyna coil, 14 ah AGM battery. Everything else is "pretty" much stock

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Click to expand...

Ok bill, your splitting hairs here. I will say that I may be showing a fresh burst of charge after a blip of the throttle at idle, but you cannot deny the fact that the meter shows a strong charging effect at a very small rise in RPM and almost full charging at 2000 rpm. A very good response.

Voltage does not indicate charging until it gets above the battery state, just the condition of the battery at any given moment, plus the charging circuit, or if the battery is disconnected, what the charging system is putting out. If the battery is in a high state of charge when starting, it will indicate good voltage. Better test would be with a good battery discharged for a few days and is at about 12.4/5V, then start and let it idle and see what you get.

My 2 cents.

Dave
69S

DogT said:

Voltage does not indicate charging until it gets above the battery state, just the condition of the battery at any given moment, plus the charging circuit, or if the battery is disconnected, what the charging system is putting out. If the battery is in a high state of charge when starting, it will indicate good voltage. Better test would be with a good battery discharged for a few days and is at about 12.4/5V, then start and let it idle and see what you get.

My 2 cents.

Dave
69S

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Fair enough, Dave, I'll give it a go. Possible with a better video showing rpm's, lights on and what not. I am not sure what it will prove other than my over zealousness of my first reading or perhaps that the system I have set up works real good for me.
We'll see. I have my key on, It only draws a few milliamps but I'll go out and turn the lights on once in a while to get it down there around 12 to 11.9vdc.
I'll start another thread also.
Peter....out!

Other thing is with the EI I think they really don't start drawing amps until it's running. Then about 2-4 Amps I think. The point system depends on if the points are closed or not. If closed, it will draw a bunch of current, that's why you don't want to leave point ignition on without running, you can burn up coils and switches. I don't doubt your system is working great.

Dave
69S