JS Motorsports Carbs

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Thanks for all the great advice and feedback guys.

Does anyone have a parts lists or know of a good fuel line kit that works great with the JS carbs? Lines, T's, etc? Do you recommend the 90 degree spiggots that connect the lines to the petcock? What diameter lines? I have seen 1/4 and 5/16?
 
Hi Johnnymac, as my bike came with all the original fuel lines, (very brittle, leaking and discoloured), I used a heat gun to soften all the terminations, prized open the brass end crimps and kept all the original 'T's from the Amal set up. Next , using and old fuel tap, I screwed the tank end fittings onto the old tap and carefully drilled out the hose tail/ferrule for both sides of the tank. This just guarantees a good fuel flow through them Next I used some Tygon tubing, you will see the colour in the pics, it is an American product, and made up a balanced fuel line system that looks identical to the original. I used zip ties/tie wraps to secure the hose to all fittings including the carbs. I can use my reserve on the RHS of the tank as before . The balance tube(horizontal section) I covered in spiral wrap and secured it to the small eyelets on the front side of the JS carbs using tie wraps/zip ties. Tygon is very petroleum resistant and doesn't go brittle.
You have to gently heat the ends to get them over the 'T' barbs but even with out zip ties they don't leak. The JS carb hose tails need zip ties though as they are a slightly smaller diameter than the Amal plastic bits. Hope this helps
Regards Mike
 
Forgot the pics!!!
JS Motorsports Carbs

JS Motorsports Carbs

Drilled this out
JS Motorsports Carbs
 
Hi Brooking, thank you for the photos. One thing that I noticed is that your lines look to be a bit kinked. I imagine that as it gets warmer (and the engine gets hot) are you going to have restriction of fuel flow there?
 
jseng1 said:
. . . . .In answer to John Laing about his cable adjuster post above.
I no longer supply cables with adjusters. The adjusters are now part of the carb tops. I still use the first style on my own bike and they are fine.

Yes, and mine are fine too, just a niggling concern . . . .

Good idea Brooking 850, shrink tube, and once their set, it's unlikely that you will ever need to cut it off to readjust.

Yes, Guido, the cups do not appear to be deep enough to allow a reliable seat, especially if the cable has to curve at the ferrule/adjuster but Brooking 850's idea of shrink tube eliminates the worry.

Heck, I'm sorry I said anything about it, it's nothing compared to my satisfaction with the product.

Just to be clear, the ferrules have never slipped out - I was just worried that they might.
 
Although this does not seem very elegant, it does work well.
I first tried a more direct method and there was too many quick turns in the lines. Although I tried to pre-form them with some heat and mandril, they still wanted to kink.
This way has no sharp turn and offers good flow even though it is round about.
Notice the larger central line between the tee's.

JS Motorsports Carbs


JS Motorsports Carbs
 
pvisseriii,

Can I just ask - how did you drill out the holes in the carb bodies for the balancing tube you've installed? How easy was it to do this? Did you use a drill press or something more serious (like a milling machine?) What kind of brass tubing did you use (where did you get this?)

And what sizing are those nice Allen bolts you've fitted to the carb tops? Those are great mods?

Thanks

Luke
 
lukeya said:
pvisseriii,

Can I just ask - did you drill out the holes in the carb bodies for the balancing tube you've installed? How easy was it to do this? Did you use a drill press or something more serious (like a milling machine?)

Has it made any difference haviung the balancing tube?

Thanks

Luke
I used a 3/16th drill. Center punch it to start true. I just eyeballed it carefully. Plenty of meat there. Get a piece of brass tube and drive it in a little. Putting a larger hose over the entire boss didn't work well. An 1/8" id line was just right to squeese over the pressed in tube.

Although some may argue, I found the idle more stable and tuneable although I keep it close to 1000rpm for obvious reasons, it can and will settle at or just under 500rpm. It's a great sound with that stage 1 cam and the BSA radius lifters. Nothing this fast should idle this good.
 
For me, drill press.

Cut a couple of pieces of steel brake line, slightly flanged the barb end, filed and polished it so it wouldn't cut my balance tube line. Good fit, with some JB weld insurance. The slight flange on the outside end of the barb end ensures that the barb can never ever get loose and drop into the intake.

The carbs are so good, I don't really think it's necessary, but then that's how Norton did it and that's how most carb'd multi cyllinder bikes are configured too, and it does give you another way to sync the carbs, based on the vacuum that each cylinder actually pulls.

As for fuel lines, still working on it. Retaining the Reserve function of right petcock is important, so for me that dictates the configuration and I wish I could find a 4 way Tee that was not an similar to an X but more like two Ts - like this TT - to place in the center of the run between the two petcocks.
 
hi guys thanks for the feed back, yes knew someone wotld pick up the 'kink' in the tube, but cannot fault the fuel flow. Prior to connecting to the carb, I held the tube in the same position as the carb connection and flowed the tank valves both sides, one at a time, and then moved the tubing to remove the small link and there was no noticable change in flow.
I run my bike as hard as I can uphill (WOT)up to 5000rpm and only using one tank valve and can't fault the fuel flow.
My next upgrade is a 3/8" stainless steel tubing balance tube that fits across between the two tanke valves, then two 1/4" separate Tygon flow lines down to the separate carb inlets a la' pvisseriii method, also the balance tube mod. for vac tuning
As I am away from my bike, I am in Singapore, bike is in New Zealand, can anyone give me an accurate measurement of the straight line distance between the tank holes for the valves please.
 
xbacksideslider said:
As for fuel lines, still working on it. Retaining the Reserve function of right petcock is important, so for me that dictates the configuration and I wish I could find a 4 way Tee that was not an similar to an X but more like two Ts - like this TT - to place in the center of the run between the two petcocks.
Been thinking along the same lines, would like to have a fuel filter too. Maybe a set of 90deg elbows off the petcocks to a connecting hose with a tee in the middle to a 1 inlet/2 outlet filter from Pingle. They say they're "Super Short", the question is whether they're short enough and if there's enough room. It wouldn't be difficult to change the inlet to a tee, if it came down to it.

http://www.pingelonline.com/powerflo.htm

JS Motorsports Carbs
 
In my quest to find the best carb setup for my bike, I spoke to Matt at CNW. I explained that I was looking at either the Mikuni, the JS Moto, or Dual Keihins. He was very nice and informative and recommended the Mikunis (I didn't even realize that CNW sold the Mikuni Kit) He explained that on the Dyno, the Mikuni has more power on the low to mid end compared to even his the Dual Flat Slide Keihins ( and as such, I would guess the JS Carbs) He explained the the 2 into 1 produces more torque which is why Jim Comstock uses the 2 into 1 for his fuel injection system. He said that he couldn't compare them to the JS Carb because he has not personally run them. He did acknowledge that the Mikunis were certainly not the best in the high end rpms, but that a lot people usually run in the low to mid range.

One of my other concerns is ease of installation and tuning. The Mikuni would be the easiest choice for someone like me who isn't yet an expert motorcycle mechanic. I am confident that I could install the JS CArbs or Dual Keihins no problem, but I really haven't the faintest idea how to sync them. Who knows, maybe it's easier than it looks.

My other concern with the JS carbs is the fact that I've read people are having to make splints for the accelerator cables where they connect to the carb tops. The issues some people are having with clearance with the airbox rear plate also is a worry. I'm not sure that I'm comfortable rigging something up given my skill level at the moment.

Am I crazy? I know the Mikunis suffer at the higher RPM's, but do I even want to run my Combat at high RPM's.... last thing I want to do is solve my carb problems but then end up blowing my motor.
 
Hi All

I have put my JS Carbs on my 850 in the last 2 months now, my motor has a SS cam grind, head work and balanced crank for running it in a Wideline Featherbed frame, Jim was very helpfull and set these carbies up for my motor, instead of 150 main jets he put 160s in, I'm no carbie expert but after having Amals on my Norton for the last 36 years I think I have learned a bit about how my carbies work (was on my second pair of Amals), I got a good tax return this year so i decided to give Jim"s carbies a go, but my Amals are still in good condition and have had not much problems with them.

I had no problems fitting Jim's carbies and with the central round oil tank on my Featherbed their was plenty of room for the air filters, when I got the carbies Jim had the needles set on the second from the top position (by the way I run a Joe Hunt maggie as well) it started on the first kick and was easy to tune, my air mixture screws are about 1/8 of a turn out after a quick tune then took it for a ride, it ran pretty smoothly down low but once it warmed up I gave it a few hand fulls on the trottle, I was surprised how well it picked up and as soon as the cam kicked in it just went, but at first sometimes when I opened it up it had a miss fire between 3,000/3,500 but not all the time.

Next day I decided to drop the needles to the top position to see what happens, it took about 4 or 5 kick to start and it had lost a bit of go, after a week in this position and the plugs running a bit lean I decided to put the needle back to the second position and muck around with the air mixtures again, this time it runs with out any problems and the miss fire has been tuned out, the Norton is running very sweetly, starts on second kick first up in the morning (this is a every day ride mostly 6 days out of 7) but after been started it will start first kick every time even if it sits for 8 hours at work, after 2 months now the carbies are settling down and seems to have worn in perfect, I pulled the plugs the other night since I lifted the needles when my mate and I were having a few beers and was surprised how clean they were, they wen't lean and they weren't rich, these plugs have over 5,000 miles on them so far and they are the best I have seen them.

Conclustion, so far I am very happy with these carbies and when I give the Norton a hand full on the trottle and the cam kicks in the front wheel just wants to lift in the air :lol: at first it took a while to work out how to start in the mornings with the trottle opening at the right time when giving it a kick, and when its warm it starts first kick every time even with out opening the trottle, so only time will tell how well these carbies will go but I am looking forward to finding out, just when you first put them on just let the needles settle in and you shouldn't have any problems.

Ashley
 
Johnnymac, just a few comments.
I have had Jim Schmidt's flat slides on my Commando for over 18 months now.

1) There is nothing to "tune". They come sorted and jetted, just bolt them on.

2) There is nothing to "synch". There is no balance tube between them "needed", Both Jim Schmidt on his own bike, and myself, have found no need, no benefit, no difference, to fitting a balance tube between the carbs.

3) My lower cables fit in to the carb tops just fine, there is no need, no concern, about constructing some kind of additional "sheathing", this is a solution to a problem that simply does not exist.

4) Prior to these flat slides, I ran a single MIkuni 34 for 15 years. I did not find ANY loss of low end or middle range torque or grunt leaving the Mikuni behind. In fact, personally feel that my flat slides deliver MORE low and middle range "grunt", are MORE responsive than the single Mikuni . And above say 4500rpm, the difference is very significant, with the flat slides just blowing away the Mikuni in performance.

General comment: You have a Combat, which is THE "performance" sold Commando with a higher lift cam and higher compression motor. The flat slides are the IDEAL carbonation for your bike. They complete your bike.
Just my opinion, but running a single Mikuni in any Commando, maybe particularly in a Combat, is like putting
a four cylinder Voltswagon Bug engine in a Corvette, all that wasted exhilaration, all that wasted performance.

My flat slides start from cold on second kick, the first is just to get the fuel drawing, and then start first kick thereafter. They idle like a rock, dead steady, need no fiddling, no tuning, no synching, and simply out perform, all through the rev range, any other carb, single or dual, combinations I have tried in 40 years of Commando ownership

I did not remove my stock air filter backing plate, there was NO need to, the air filters fit there just fine.

I wish these carbs had been available in 1971 when I bought my first new Commando.

So go ahead and put a single Mikuni on your Commando, just giving my thoughts.
 
One point I would like to raise which hasn't had a mention in this thread---a major reason people seem to go away from amals Mk1 concentrics they say, is that they won't stay in sync. Yes, a single carb of any type will cure that, or the FCN Keihins with their integrated linkage. Any other dual carb setup using the original cable setup, or even twin pulls, as these all seem to be , will eventually have the same issue. How can they not? They use the same theaded adjuster type in the top of the carb...if the "sync" issue is fixed by mechanical adjustment, the JS moto setup will need the same amount of attention, will it not? And every time the subject of replacing" unsatisfactory" amals with whatever comes up, posters will say just how brilliant the replacement is : you cannot compare a set of possibly thirty or forty year old, badly worn carbs,most likely with contaminated idle circuit passages, with something brand new. Simply not a valid comparison.
I was leaning towards replacing my 932's, which I had fitted new when I first bought the bike, with a mikuni or something else. But, as I've gained competence in tuning them, learnt a few simple tricks, looked at people having to come up with convoluted fuel systems and fiddly air cleaner setups,replaced an analogue boyer and twin lucas coils with a Tri-spark and CNW coil (which helps a stable idle no end, don't blame the carbs), I've come to terms with them, quite happy. And no, they don't wear out in 10,000 miles, mine have done 12, 000 with no problems, and, if I had to replace them now, it would be with the premier version of the same thing. I like the look of my standard aircleaner with a stainless front plate, don't like pods (been there, done that), the standard fuel line setup bolts up easily and neatly (and includes a fine screen, why do you need an inline filter addition?), and they already have the spigot to attach vacuum gauges. And synchronisation becomes much easier when you don't need to remove the aircleaner to stick something under the slides, and far more accurate, IMO.
To sum it up, if I had someone new to british bikes in general, and commando's in particular, come to me with their new ride, and complain about the stalling, hard starting, etc, I'd probably point them at a Mikuni kit. Then, as their nous grew, and they wanted all thier performance back, they could flog their mikuni kit to the next noob that comes along, and i'd help them fit a new set of amals, which would cost about what the mikuni kit, manifold and all, was worth secondhand. I'm glad my mentor in this didn't encourage me to take the easy route.

TH, ML and fullauto may disagree :mrgreen:
 
Hi
I agree with Renmar850, my Norton has done over 120,000 miles sense I have owned it new, I replaced my 932 Amals in 1980 and these Amals have been on sense, they have never given me any problems only just the usal maintenance that has to be done, I always replace the needles and jets and anything else every 3 years as these part do wear out, I have never had any idle problems with my Amals, I just decided to put the JS Carbies on as everyone said how good they perform, so far I am very happy with them and yes my Norton is performing very good with them on and I recon they look good on the bike as well, but only time will tell if they last as good as my Amals, I have kept my Amals and they have just been rekitted with all new jets and needles, so they are ready if I need them again.

Ashley
 
Very well said Ranmar850. New Amal Concentrics are completely competent.

I replaced mine at 14,000 miles; they were loose and I have to admit that I could have pushed them farther with new slides and richer tuning to compensate for the leaky slide/body connections; I coiuld have done a sleeve job, for less money as well.

There is no doubt that my 14,000 mile Lucas auto advance unit contributed more than the worn carbs to my motivation for new carbs and a TriSpark.
 
Yes Ramar 850, love my original concentrics now on 22,000 resleeved in brass about 12,000 with new jets ,needles and viton tips . First kick stuff. Anything new / refurbished just has to work better granted. Never overtighten anything here or grief ensues. Original too. So many options to atomize fuel/air mixture. Just got in from the Toronto Motorcycle Show and sat on many new 2012 models from all over the world-thingy.Sat on new yellow Nort. cafe-racer and then silver 981. Let many pretty girls talk to me , learned I am a great listener. Learned more about fuel injection too, and oils. Enjoy, Pete.
 
The primary reason Anal carbs go out of sync is that as the carbs wear very rapidly (with the exception of those fitted to bikes whose owners claim 500,000 miles with no problems!), and not at exactly the same rate, frequent adjustments will be required to compensate for this wear.
 
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