Is Pazon Ignitions still in business? Sure-Fire stopped working

1973 750 Commando. Pazon Sure-Fire electronic ignition since 2014. A week ago it was running fine, starting with one kick. Then two blocks from home, it started missing and backfiring. Now it won't start or even fire at all.

Took the trigger plate off to inspect and no visible problem. I did NOT remove or loosen the rotor with the two magnets. Then did Pazon's trouble shooting of the trigger plate by jumping the two wires to the trigger plate, and it sparked every time. Checked the spark at plugs with the kick start (no electric start in 1973) and both were sparking - but I have no way of knowing if they're sparking at the right time.

When I re-installed the trigger plate, I followed Pazon instructions (as I've done several times over the years) 1) rotate engine to 31 degrees BTDC, 2) install the trigger plate so one of the magnets in rotor is under the hole in the trigger plate (for anti-clockwise rotation). The post bolts were in the center of their adjustment holes.

The way I understand it, it's a "wasted spark" system that fires every two revolutions - both plugs fire at the same time, one is firing near the top of the compression stroke and the other near the top of the exhaust stroke. So as long as the tiing mark is lined up when you set the rotor in place so one magnet is under the hole in the trigger plate, it should be fine. It doesn't matter which magnet is under the hole or which cylinder is approaching the top of the compression stroke.

I've tried to contact Pazon via their email address, the contact form on their website and by phone. No response from email or contact form message. Calls do not connect to their phone (message I get is "cannot connect"). I called a motorcycle shop in the same town and the call went right through.

Sooooo, 1) does anyone know if Pazon is still in business? Their website is still up and selling stuff, and
2) any suggestions for why it won't fire at all now, even though there's spark at the plugs when I kick it over. BTW, there's fuel int he float bowl (Mikuni).

Any thoughts much appreciated.

Maybe they are on holiday ?

trident sam said:

Maybe they are on holiday ?

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Could be, but no outgoing voice-mail or notice of holiday on their site?

It fires once EVERY revolution, but that's a minor detail.

I have had a Pazon Surefire ignition refuse to start with loose connections to the stator. Check it again. I find those connectors really fiddly.

And make sure the yellow/black and white/black aren't poled over. And be sure your battery voltage is good.

If that is all fine, suspect the coil. Is the spark really strong? It is possible to see a spark at the plug outside of the cylinder that doesn't happen under compression.

I had my coil fail recently, I could see a spark, but when I fitted a replacement coil it was obvious how week it was, and of course it then ran immediately.

SteveA said:

It fires once EVERY revolution, but that's a minor detail.

I have had a Pazon Surefire ignition refuse to start with loose connections to the stator. Check it again. I find those connectors really fiddly.

And make sure the yellow/black and white/black aren't poled over.

If that is all fine, suspect the coil, is the spark really strong? It is possible to see a spark at the plug outside of the cylinder that doesn't happen under compression.

I had my coil fail recently, I could see a spark, but when I fitted a replacement coil it was obvious how week it was, and of course it then ran immediately.

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Thanks. When you say "stator" are you talking about the charging system or the trigger plate of the electronic ignition (that replaces the point backing plate) . The yellow/black and white/black wires to the trigger plate are tight. I'll check that again. It has 2 6v coils that have very few miles on them. I checked them per the Pazon website's troubleshooting info,and they seemed ok. I'll re-check them.

swolh said:

Thanks. When you say "stator" are you talking about the charging system or the trigger plate of the electronic ignition (that replaces the point backing plate) . The yellow/black and white/black wires to the trigger plate are tight. I'll check that again. It has 2 6v coils that have very few miles on them. I checked them per the Pazon website's troubleshooting info,and they seemed ok. I'll re-check them.

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Trigger plate.

Make sure you have enough insulation removed at the end of the wires to get a good electrical contact!

And since you have two coils make sure the interconnection between them is good.

New coils can fail too! Particularly if it's been very hot where you are.

Thanks. Will re-check all connections, and re-check the coils later today.

I just tried to ring them since I am in NZ and their phone rang thru fine. No one picked up since is 7.25 am...

I just checked the Companies Register and they are still an active company and have a recent return filed.

Thanks.. That's odd. I called BayRide motorcycles near Pazon's location - and that call went right through. It was early am in NZ, so I got voice-mail there.
If you are able to call them, could you ask them to email me at swolh@comcast.net?

This has happened before and I rang them in NZ to confirm their e mail was working. There was some issue but I can't remember what. Still only 8 :50 am Friday morning down here so may not be on the phones yet.

johnm said:

This has happened before and I rang them in NZ to confirm their e mail was working. There was some issue but I can't remember what. Still only 8 :50 am Friday morning down here so may not be on the phones yet.

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johnm - Thank you very much!

Pazon were relocating a couple of months ago which was stated on their website, you would assume if the changed their contact number their website would have been updated.

possm said:

Pazon were relocating a couple of months ago which was stated on their website, you would assume if the changed their contact number their website would have been updated.

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Their website has this contact info:
Telephone:
International: +64 75495878
Within New Zealand: 07 5495878 Can folks n NZ call this number and get through to voice mail or a person? Is there another number for Pazon?

Mailing address:
Pazon Ignitions Ltd.
3 Brookby Place
KATIKATI 3129
Bay of Plenty
NEW ZEALAND

swolh said:

johnm - Thank you very much!

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Hi . Just spoke with Andy at Pazon.

They are definitely still in business and my phone went straight through no issues.

Andy said he has got your emails and has answered them several times. He actually read out your first one to me.

He said they had issues with the comcast site in the past and it seemed to reject his NZ email address. He contacted them and they said they were not blocking his New Zealand address but maybe it's happening again.

Anyway the short answer is he has replied to your emails several times. Has had no bounce back at his end. His phone worked perfectly for me in NZ business hours. Definitely still in business.

I told him about this thread and he has now read it and I think he is planning to reply.

Andy is a good guy. Dealt with him with ignitions for Nortons and the racing Velos. Family business. When you talk to him your talking to the company.

Good luck

Hi Steven,
If you are getting sparks on cranking but the bike won't fire up, it could be due to one of a number of issues:

trigger wires (Y/B and W/B) swapped over (simple mistake, but it does happen)
timing mark is incorrect
faulty ignition module (firing at completely the wrong time - quite rare)
mechanical fault, e.g. fuel, air leak, valve timing, compression, etc.

Please see the troubleshooting tips on our website:

https://www.pazon.com/info/technical/ignition-system-troubleshooting/sure-fire

On the above page is a section on checking the trigger assembly and magnetic rotor:

Regards,
Andy @ Pazon Ignitions
PS. we have received all your emails, and sent many replies to you. None have been bounced back to us, so our emails could be in your spam/junk folder or blocked by your ISP.

Andy@Pazon said:

Hi Steven,
If you are getting sparks on cranking but the bike won't fire up, it could be due to one of a number of issues:

trigger wires (Y/B and W/B) swapped over (simple mistake, but it does happen)
timing mark is incorrect
faulty ignition module (firing at completely the wrong time - quite rare)
mechanical fault, e.g. fuel, air leak, valve timing, compression, etc.

Please see the troubleshooting tips on our website:

https://www.pazon.com/info/technical/ignition-system-troubleshooting/sure-fire

On the above page is a section on checking the trigger assembly and magnetic rotor:

Regards,
Andy @ Pazon Ignitions
PS. we have received all your emails, and sent many replies to you. None have been bounced back to us, so our emails could be in your spam/junk folder or blocked by your ISP.

Click to expand...

Andy

thanks. Glad to know you're still in business

Ahhhh!! ....You're right about your emails being in a spam folder. Comcast (now called xfinity) recently subcontracted all their email to Yahoo.com, so comcast.net emails go to the Yahoo email server. I use Thunderbird to retrieve emails from (now) the Yahoo server, so I don't log into that srever directly. I just logged onto Yahoo directly and your emails were all there in a spam folder (along with a lot of other valid emails)! I have no idea why my calls all got "cannot Connect". I even called BayRIde cycles, and that call went right through, so I'm mystified about why I've been unable to call you. I'll reply to you email, but will also post here for benefit and curiosity of others.

Per your post here:
trigger wires (Y/B and W/B) swapped over (simple mistake, but it does happen) - trigger wires are not swapped. It ran well , then one day started missing and backfiring a few blocks out of the garage.
timing mark is incorrect - Please see my first post here. I've checked four times and the static timing is spot on. The mark on the alternator is at 31 degrees with both pistons approaching TDC, and the anit-clockwise hole in the trigger plate is centered over the magnet (I haven't loosened the magnet rotor since the bike stopped running), and the trigger hold down bolts are in the middle of the adjustment slots.
faulty ignition module (firing at completely the wrong time - quite rare) - This is what I wanted to ask you about - how to test that. The static test by touching the two wires at the trigger plate gets a spark each time.
mechanical fault, e.g. fuel, air leak, valve timing, compression, etc. - The Mikuni carb was thoroughly cleaned less than two hundred miles ago. Relatively new carb to head mounting flange. (I can check to make sure it's clamped tight so no air leak (but I think it should at lest fire and start even with an air leak there) I took the float bowl off and there was plenty of gas there. Not sure how the valve timing would have slipped. I had the cover off recently and the timing chain was okay (re-timed it after that and it started one kick and ran fine). It has a MK3 timing cover, so I can pull the plug and take a look at the timing chain. Compression with 3 or 4 kicks is 105 psi right and 100 psi left.

Please see the troubleshooting tips on our website: I did that. Printed it out. I checked the 6v coils and they were at or close to what the troubleshooting tips said they should be. They were replaced less than a thousand miles ago. I can check them again.

I've read some posts that say the Sure-Fire module plays better with either resistor plug wire caps, or resistor plugs (but not both). It's been running NGK BP7ES plugs that are not resistor plugs and non-resitor wire caps. Tomorrow I'm getting some NGK BPR7ES plugs that are resitor plug and will see if that makes a difference.

You can't easily test the advance/retard on the ignition module - only when the bike is running and with a strobe light.
We have a dedicated test rig that can check the advance function and other parameters, over a wide range of rpm.

The self-test function checks for sparks (also confirming battery, connections, coils/leads/caps/plugs are good), but it is not a 100% perfect test for the module.
Very rarely a module will pass the self-test but the low speed operation and/or advance could be 'off'.
This can happen when (for example) the bike has a bad or missing engine ground, and sparks can jump where they shouldn't - for example inside the points housing and into the module via the trigger wires.
This can damage the module internal components.

Unfortunately the grounding issue is not uncommon with the Commando, due to the engine mounting method.

The Sure Fire system can be run with or without resistor caps/plugs, as it is not especially susceptible to radio frequency interference (r.f.i.).
If you have other electronic items on the bike (e.g. electronic tacho, intercom, alarm, etc.), these may be affected by r.f.i. if there is insufficient suppression in the high tension circuits.
So in those cases you may need to fit resistor caps or resistor plugs.
If you are using resistor caps we would normally advise using non-resistor plugs.
Similarly if you are using resistor plugs we would advise using non-resistor caps.
Too much resistance can reduce the available spark energy (although the reduction is usually quite small).
Also, we always recommend using copper cored plug leads with all of our systems.

And there endeth the lesson folks… check your spam folders before sparking international internet incidents…