Ignition - replace magneto with 'Sparx'?

Bodger said:
That one looks like someone filled it with water to keep the condenser from drying out. I guess if you're creative you can use the body to camouflage your electronic ignition. The "new" Wassel/Lucas company sells a kit with a dummy magneto housing.
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Yeah what's odd is the rest of the bike had sawdust on it, probably not a bad thing. This cleaned up fairly well, I'm going to look at it and see if it works at some point, you never know. Not top priority but will see what I can do. It certainly needs bearings and races, not sure how to remove races yet, probably a clamping plate that chomps in behind it and squeezes it off on the outside one, and drive out the inside one, but just guessing.

Ignition - replace magneto with 'Sparx'?
 
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gpzkat said:
Yeah what's odd is the rest of the bike had sawdust on it, probably not a bad thing. This cleaned up fairly well, I'm going to look at it and see if it works at some point, you never know. Not top priority but will see what I can do. It certainly needs bearings and races, not sure how to remove races yet, probably a clamping plate that chomps in behind it and squeezes it off on the outside one, and drive out the inside one, but just guessing.

Ignition - replace magneto with 'Sparx'?
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This can be a whole world of pain to do yourself
Either get the magneto rebuilt by someone reputable
Or buy the electronic housing as LAB suggests
Or go for the dommi/atlas type distributer
Personally I prefer a magneto but it's probably the dearest option
The cheapest option (possibly) is to get a distributor
If you rebuild that mag yourself you need the gasket/shim that isolates the bearings from the housing
And you will need to shim the body
And if you fix that and it works then the shellac may break down with age
And the condenser may break down with age
 
I had a sparx ignition on an Atlas, it worked fine. Keep the mag as a winter project, but as suggested, buy a housing and a plain sprocket, view on RGM website, and fit your sparx unit in that. Don't weld up the AAU, they are rare and should not be destroyed.
 
Yeah I just wondered out of curiosity if it would work with a spin test, but that means bearings, and those look quite involved after doing some reading. Good info, I have some more reading and number crunching to do.
 
gpzkat said:
Yeah I just wondered out of curiosity if it would work with a spin test, but that means bearings, and those look quite involved after doing some reading. Good info, I have some more reading and number crunching to do.
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It's the old shellac and old condenser you could end up fighting with
I was having problems with my BSA A10 magneto
I'd fitted new bearings etc then it was cutting out when it got hot
I bought a reconditioned magneto and aar unit for it and although expensive it was the best money I spent on that bike
 
baz said:
It's the old shellac and old condenser you could end up fighting with
I was having problems with my BSA A10 magneto
I'd fitted new bearings etc then it was cutting out when it got hot
I bought a reconditioned magneto and aar unit for it and although expensive it was the best money I spent on that bike
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The old condenser (capacitor) is the cause of cutting out, or no spark at all, when hot. A reconditioned mag replaces both the capacitor and armature shellac. A proper magneto rebuild includes rewinding the armature with about a mile of very fine wire with modern shellac or varnish, ..... hence not cheap.

I am a magneto man, and I would go with a rebuild by a trusted rebuilder. IMO, by the time you buy the various parts necessary to convert to EI, you will be close to the cost of a quality rebuild, and no fuss to fit or adapt the various components.

Slick
 
texasSlick said:
IMO, by the time you buy the various parts necessary to convert to EI, you will be close to the cost of a quality rebuild, and no fuss to fit or adapt the various components.

Slick
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EXACTLY my thoughts !!

A good mag will perform faultlessly, be entirely independent of the rest of the electrical system, and most likely out live the owner.

Throwing it out ain’t an ‘upgrade’ at all IMHO.
 
texasSlick said:
The old condenser (capacitor) is the cause of cutting out, or no spark at all, when hot. A reconditioned mag replaces both the capacitor and armature shellac. A proper magneto rebuild includes rewinding the armature with about a mile of very fine wire with modern shellac or varnish, ..... hence not cheap.

I am a magneto man, and I would go with a rebuild by a trusted rebuilder. IMO, by the time you buy the various parts necessary to convert to EI, you will be close to the cost of a quality rebuild, and no fuss to fit or adapt the various components.

Slick
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My thoughts exactly
I only have to give my A10 a stern look and it fires up
 
I like magnetos too, had on my XT350 and other bikes. Simple setup with no depending on a battery or a starter motor. Just as an aside, I saw a belt driven setup on a Z1R-TC (Mr Turbo), looked slick. Guy's an old drag racer, that bike's built up pretty well and did a 9 flat quarter. I think my GS1100E Mr Turbo could give it a run as it's pushing 200HP on pump gas, but I don't have his skills/reaction time (or a magneto!).
 
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gpzkat said:
Yeah what's odd is the rest of the bike had sawdust on it, probably not a bad thing. This cleaned up fairly well, I'm going to look at it and see if it works at some point, you never know. Not top priority but will see what I can do. It certainly needs bearings and races, not sure how to remove races yet, probably a clamping plate that chomps in behind it and squeezes it off on the outside one, and drive out the inside one, but just guessing.

Ignition - replace magneto with 'Sparx'?
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Well, g
gpzkat said:
Yeah what's odd is the rest of the bike had sawdust on it, probably not a bad thing. This cleaned up fairly well, I'm going to look at it and see if it works at some point, you never know. Not top priority but will see what I can do. It certainly needs bearings and races, not sure how to remove races yet, probably a clamping plate that chomps in behind it and squeezes it off on the outside one, and drive out the inside one, but just guessing.

Ignition - replace magneto with 'Sparx'?
Click to expand...
Well gpzKat, you certainly have cleaned up that horrid mess, but I have some reservations about the ball race on the drive end of the armature rotor. It does not appear to be removable and replaceable. Since an armature needs to be rewound, it would be well to shop for another.

Any imperfections in the race will ruin a new bearing.

Slick
 
Did some reading, I think it's removable by getting a bent screwdriver in there from the near end, but I think this one's going to be so badly corrosion bonded it's gonna be an exercise in futility and probably butcher it or me or both. I'll leave it to a pro to rebuild should I go that route. I'm basically at ground up time now, but the bones are pretty good on this bike other than the magneto...
 
I made a tool to remove the inner race. It is a hollow thick walled tube with 3 setscrews at one end to tighten against the ball groove on the race. The other end is threaded internally for a bolt that pushes on the shaft end. Measure the diameter. You can have it if it is the right size because I no longer have the Matchless magneto singles that I made it for. You can get the bearings from the UK but I would still recommend a specialist to do the work. Perry Gerhart (RIP) used to turn the assembled armature on a lathe to true up the pickup ring so there is no bounce. Doug Wood does a good job now.
 
+1 on Doug Wood.

Very thorough and professional.

Cheaper than a new one by Hunt or the like by a couple/few hundred.

On new machines, once magnetos were replaced by a distributor and coils, replacing the latter with the former was considered an upgrade. The same holds today in my mind, so long as it's been sorted.
 
batrider said:
I made a tool to remove the inner race. It is a hollow thick walled tube with 3 setscrews at one end to tighten against the ball groove on the race. The other end is threaded internally for a bolt that pushes on the shaft end. Measure the diameter. You can have it if it is the right size because I no longer have the Matchless magneto singles that I made it for. You can get the bearings from the UK but I would still recommend a specialist to do the work. Perry Gerhart (RIP) used to turn the assembled armature on a lathe to true up the pickup ring so there is no bounce. Doug Wood does a good job now.
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That's kind of you, thanks. I think I have to know my limitations and steer clear of attempting a fix on the magneto. A man's got to know his limitations. I am trying to learn new tricks, welding is next.

As a tangent, as I'm prone to tangents... I notice working on the Norton that the quality of the steel and aluminum is really good compared to the Japanese bikes I've restored. The enamel on my frame and swingarm and other black parts are tough as nails too. It's not something I can exactly quantify but I clean and fix a lot of stuff and can notice a difference. I laid out a bunch of stuff to sand/bead blast (friend has a nice cabinet and we help each other out), and after cleaning I don't want to resurface the stuff, there are some nicks and scrapes but all will polish up quite well without resorting to harsh measures.
 
Well, after focusing on many other tasks, I had another go at it for 'fun' and got the ball race out of that deep end. I heated the housing on the outdoor grill to a temp of about 200, doing a couple of heat cool cycles and hit it with some oil and brake cleaning fluid in between (since I'm out of penetrant at the moment). I dropped some crushed ice inside and gave it a couple medium smacks on the workbench, which opened up a little gap. Then I levered it out using a funny double angled pick that just fit into the gap. Sort of my standard practice now, having done on the main bearing shell and wheel bearings, all very stubborn.

I'm considering using the unit in a dummy mode with a Thorspark, at the moment anyway. Now the bearing inners on the armature ends need to come off and are presenting more of a problem - but a tool for that should be easy to come by.
 
Save up your money and replace the maggie with a new 4 rare earth Joe Hunt maggie and you will never look back, best money I ever spent on my Norton but mine sits outside not behind the motor, but Joe Hunt have maggies to replace your old Lucas maggie, better spark, less bits, more simple and very reliable for one kick start every time, no battery needed, if my Manxman bike maggie stops working I be replacing it with a Joe Hunt they are that good and in my opinion better than any EI's.

Ashley
 
If this magneto dealio is for the N15 you are working on (beautiful work so far), as mentioned a small magneto housing would look best with the Thorspark EI inside it. The K2 is a monster size magneto. JH magnetos are shorter wider probably pretty good and would be a relatively easy install in the standard magneto location. To me the only advantage of a magneto is you can get away with not using a battery. Great for a race bike.

I had a big rebuilt Lucas K2 on my P11 for years. If my memory serves the brightness of the lights were RPM dependent when I had the magneto on there. Things may have changed for street bike lighting with a magneto and no battery since I did that though. I took it off in the early 1990's. If I were to ever use a magneto again, I'd keep the battery I'm currently using for the lights. It weighs less than my wallet. My current ignition system weighs less than $4 in quarters.

My opinion means nuts. I only responded to tell you I like the work you are doing on the N15. ;)
 
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