Ignition - replace magneto with 'Sparx'?

gpzkat

gpzkat

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I need to preface this with the fact that I don't know much about Nortons or magnetos, and ask kindly for advice. My magneto is original and is locked up to the point it prevented the rotation of the crankshaft. I didn't hammer on it when I realized what it was, and so far I've let it sit in a box as I take on other challenges. Repair is probably beyond my skills and refurbishment looks very expensive. Plus I'm on a tight budget.

Fairly locally there is a guy selling a setup as follows:

  • Sparx electronic ignition for 350, 500, 650, 750, or 800 Triumph, BSA, or Norton, asking $75 - new it is $140. I bought it new several years ago but never used it and no longer have a Triumph. See Sparxelectronic part number TBS-0021 for details.
  • New Wassell single phase 16 AMP 2 lead Stator and rotor for 500, 650 or 750 Triumph, BSA, or Norton up to 1975. I bought them new several years ago but never used them and no longer have a Triumph. Asking $150 - new $300.
I don't know if I need the stator and rotor, it's all a crap shoot at this point as I disassemble, clean and assess the parts pile I have. I'm familiar with Boyer, had one on my '66 T120R, but have never heard of Sparx. I need to spend my money wisely and would like input on whether one or both of these presents a good opportunity or not.

Ignition - replace magneto with 'Sparx'?


Ignition - replace magneto with 'Sparx'?
 
Triton Thrasher said:
Do you actually mean the alternator when you say “magneto?”

This could be a struggle!
Click to expand...
Why do you say it's a struggle? I know the difference from a magneto and an alternator as I have rebuilt several bikes from the ground up over the years to perfect running and local show winning level, just no Nortons or magnetos. Ya wanna see them? The magneto rotated in one direction only. It is binding in the forward rotation of the engine. I am very careful and can rebuild whatever I've needed but a magneto seems ancient tech and a big hassle to me. All I'm really asking here is whether these parts look feasible for my application.
 
Triton Thrasher said:
What kind of bike do you have?

I must say, a magneto that stops the engine turning is unusual.
Click to expand...
It is the magneto that stops the engine turning by hand, barrels off. It is binding, yeah I've read that it's unusual but it's not unheard of, at least now :)

This is the bike '66 N15CS $150 pile:

Ignition - replace magneto with 'Sparx'?
 
gpzkat said:
I need to preface this with the fact that I don't know much about Nortons or magnetos, and ask kindly for advice. My magneto is original and is locked up to the point it prevented the rotation of the crankshaft. I didn't hammer on it when I realized what it was, and so far I've let it sit in a box as I take on other challenges. Repair is probably beyond my skills and refurbishment looks very expensive. Plus I'm on a tight budget.
Click to expand...

To replace the magneto with electronic ignition needs the housing (or complete magneto replacement kit).
Pazon although there are other types:

Magneto Replacement Body/Housing :: Magneto Replacement Ignitions :: Products :: Pazon Ignitions Limited

Magneto Replacement Body/Housing, as supplied with Sure-Fire/Smart-Fire Pre-Unit Single/Twin/V-Twin Ignition Systems. Fits in place of Lucas K2F/BTH type magnetos. Overview of Digital & Analogue Ignition Systems. Classic bike & car electronic ignitions for road & racing.
www.pazon.com

Magneto Replacement Ignitions :: Products :: Pazon Ignitions Limited

Overview of Digital & Analogue Ignition Systems. Classic bike & car electronic ignitions for road & racing.
www.pazon.com


gpzkat said:
I'm familiar with Boyer, had one on my '66 T120R, have never heard of Sparx.
Click to expand...


It's a Chinese electronic ignition similar to the Boyer Micro MkIII/IV.
 
L.A.B. said:
To replace the magneto with electronic ignition needs the housing (or complete magneto replacement kit).
Pazon although there are other types:

Magneto Replacement Body/Housing :: Magneto Replacement Ignitions :: Products :: Pazon Ignitions Limited

Magneto Replacement Body/Housing, as supplied with Sure-Fire/Smart-Fire Pre-Unit Single/Twin/V-Twin Ignition Systems. Fits in place of Lucas K2F/BTH type magnetos. Overview of Digital & Analogue Ignition Systems. Classic bike & car electronic ignitions for road & racing.
www.pazon.com

Magneto Replacement Ignitions :: Products :: Pazon Ignitions Limited

Overview of Digital & Analogue Ignition Systems. Classic bike & car electronic ignitions for road & racing.
www.pazon.com





It's a Chinese electronic ignition similar to the Boyer Micro MkIII/IV.
Click to expand...
Thanks that is helpful info.
 
gpzkat said:
Why do you say it's a struggle? I know the difference from a magneto and an alternator as I have rebuilt several bikes from the ground up over the years to perfect running and local show winning level, just no Nortons or magnetos. Ya wanna see them? The magneto rotated in one direction only. It is binding in the forward rotation of the engine. I am very careful and can rebuild whatever I've needed but a magneto seems ancient tech and a big hassle to me. All I'm really asking here is whether these parts look feasible for my application.
Click to expand...
Also need a solid magneto drive sprocket or you can ruin a rare/expensive auto advance unit by tack welding it so it doesn't advance.
 
FWIW:
From your description, your magneto might be beyond practical repair.

Typically, a full rebuild of a K2F magneto runs $400 to $500. Such a rebuild is not a DIY project .... don't even think about that. As you are on a budget, and given that a most unusual fault is in your maggie, abandoning it may be the best course to take. Before abandoning it, however, I would investigate the cause of the bind, it may be something simply corrected, giving you a viable unit that might justify the expense of a complete rebuild. Don't throw it away! I'll take it off your hands FOB your town.

I cannot advise you further regarding the Sparx ignition as I know nothing of it.

Slick
 
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Bodger said:
Also need a solid magneto drive sprocket or you can ruin a rare/expensive auto advance unit by tack welding it so it doesn't advance.
Click to expand...
Not sure I get what you mean, but the magneto will rotate in one direction freely, and after several spins in forward (as motor turns) rotation it binds up solid. I have disassembled the entire bottom end and none of the timing side assembly is incorrect or damaged. Who knows what life it led.
 
Here's a fascinating little video of a stuck magneto. I guess I'll be taking it apart soon.

 
texasSlick said:
FWIW:
From your description, your magneto might be beyond practical repair.

Typically, a full rebuild of a K2F magneto runs $400 to $500. Such a rebuild is not a DIY project .... don't even think about that. As you are on a budget, and given that a most unusual fault is in your maggie, abandoning it may be the best course to take. Before abandoning it, however, I would investigate the cause of the bind, it may be something simply corrected, giving you a viable unit that might justify the expense of a complete rebuild. Don't throw it away! I'll take it off your hands FOB your town.

I cannot advise you further regarding the Sparx ignition as I know nothing of it.

Slick
Click to expand...
Yeah I have read up on magneto repair and although I've done just about everything on a bike, that seems past my skills, knowledge, and tools. I will disassemble it to see what the heck is going on.
 
Could find a distributor set up such as those on Dominator 88/99 or contact breaker- points found on late Atlas and early Commandos. Both mounted the same way as the magneto. Modifications to the harness and headlight switch type would probably be needed in addition to the mentioned sprocket.

LAB’s links are probably the best solution both cost and time wise IMO if the mag is toast.

Contact breaker set-up:
andover-norton.co.uk

Andover Norton Parts Drawings - Andover Norton Factory Parts - Commando Parts

Andover Norton Parts are the only Norton spare parts in the market manufactured to original drawings, within the factory-approved tolerances, from the correct materials, and with the correct finish.
andover-norton.co.uk
 
gpzkat said:
Not sure I get what you mean, but the magneto will rotate in one direction freely, and after several spins in forward (as motor turns) rotation it binds up solid. I have disassembled the entire bottom end and none of the timing side assembly is incorrect or damaged. Who knows what life it led.
Click to expand...
With an electronic ignition you no longer need the mechanical (automatic) advance unit that forms part of the drive sprocket for the magneto. So if using a Pazon or similar module to contain the electronic unit located where the magneto previously was located you either need a drive sprocket for the electronic unit that does not have an advance unit built into it or you can tack weld the unit you have so it is locked and does not advance.
 
Bodger said:
With an electronic ignition you no longer need the mechanical (automatic) advance unit that forms part of the drive sprocket for the magneto. So if using a Pazon or similar module to contain the electronic unit located where the magneto previously was located you either need a drive sprocket for the electronic unit that does not have an advance unit built into it or you can tack weld the unit you have so it is locked and does not advance.
Click to expand...
Ah, that is clear thank you for the info. Good news is I just got a free MIG welder setup with a huge bottle of shielding gas and rigged up a power source outside in my work area, all I need to do is learn to weld....
 
Ok this thing is pretty rusty, I realized the spinning one way only was due to loose bolt holding the point assembly (whatever it's called) on. It would be stuck both ways but came apart quite easily considering.

Ignition - replace magneto with 'Sparx'?
 
That one looks like someone filled it with water to keep the condenser from drying out. I guess if you're creative you can use the body to camouflage your electronic ignition. The "new" Wassel/Lucas company sells a kit with a dummy magneto housing.
 


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