how to put a neutral indicator into a standard commando

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croz2803

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Has anyone come up with an effective way to do this yet? i currently have my gearbox in pieces and thought whilst im at it i may as well make use of that extra light on my swanky new Motogadget speedo ;)
 
The external bolt on the case that threads into the quadrant shaft could be used since it will read neutral via its rotation position.
A micro switch could then be used to convert that to a electrical signal, maybe a custom bolt with a small index plate.
The gear indication arm at the shifter could be used but it would hard to make a neat installation.
 
One of the 850 editions has a N idicator lamp. The swtitch is a long-ish probe that engages cam and lights when to probe rests in a extra N indention in the cam rim. You'd have to get the special shell with the extra aligned threaded hole and notched cam or DIY somehow to do it like factory. In mean time its ancient tradition to taste clutch engagement before comminted to let go at long traffic lights or other ocassions, as its not good to hold clutch in for very long routinely. To me the tricky part would be aimming the intial hole to hit spot on the small cam notch, IIRC small enough it don't bother shifing, which implies a rather sensitive short probe motion to fine tune as well. A proper working AMC is easy as pie to snick N in either direction with a bit of muscle memory finese & lost interest in the switch I accquired for Peel after TTI tranny afforded. Still a good feature to create. Oh yeah I asked TTI if they had that option to order but no response to that.
 
how to put a neutral indicator into a standard commando


Mk 111 box (left) needed to be replaced with the Mk 11 box on the right (due to excessive cracking)
A reputable machine shop did the job. For the neutral switch getting the hole in the right spot is the trick so a MK 111 box would be handy for reference (I have the old one still) but otherwise no big deal other than sorting the wiring
Other difference between the boxes was the spigot had to be ground down to allow the crossover shaft to pass (for the left hand gear change) and the denton plunger shaft had to be chamfered


Cheers

jed
 
i like TimeWarp's suggestion to use the indicator shaft, but if that is not do-able, then.....

I am not where I can inspect my GB outer cover to see if this is feasible.....just a suggestion. The quadrant plate may re-bound and make the following suggestion not feasible.

With the quadrant plate in N, drill into it just deep enough for a detent notch. Mount a subminiature plunger switch (normally closed) to drop into the detent in N.

Optional: notch the quadrant plate on the edge for a detent.

An oil tight switch would be ideal ( hard to find in subminiature size), but there might not be enough oil splash in the outer chamber to cause a problem. The worst case would be the light stays on if the switch contacts get fouled by oil.

Slick
 
the MKIII also has a different cam plate which has a button to engage the neutral switch.

Jed said:
otherwise no big deal other than sorting the wiring
Other difference between the boxes was the spigot had to be ground down to allow the crossover shaft to pass (for the left hand gear change) and the denton plunger shaft had to be chamfered

Cheers

jed
Click to expand...
 
bill said:
the MKIII also has a different cam plate which has a button to engage the neutral switch.
Click to expand...

You could conceivably "add" a button to the cam plate as seen on #28 http://www.oldbritts.com/1975_g7.html next to the neutral detent,
and then add the switch itself through a new hole in the housing (#48-50) http://www.oldbritts.com/1975_g6.html, but, as pointed out by Steve and Jed, getting the timing correct is the concern. I'd start by making the hole through the housing at the proper radius out from the cam center bolt (spindle bolt, #29), then reaching through to mark the cam plate while it's in neutral.

Nathan
 
There are plenty, the outside bolt for the quadrant still rotates externally.
Drilling holes in the case seems like a leak in the making when if you go look at that bolt head it will rotate if you cycle the shift lever.
The quadrant shaft has end float in the bush, the external bolt and washer go hard up against the quadrant shaft end with a O ring to seal things.
Whatever the quadrant does that bolt follows.

how to put a neutral indicator into a standard commando
 
Time Warp said:
...the outside bolt for the quadrant still rotates externally. Whatever the quadrant does that bolt follows.
Click to expand...
Good observation! Definitely, adding some sort of external arm to the bolt head to trigger a switch makes a lot more sense than violating the case with another hole.
 
hobot said:
as its not good to hold clutch in for very long routinely. quote]

Steve,
Are you sure of this statement? :?
According to Mick Hemmings gearbox servicing: His quote " Never sit in neutral any longer than you have to because with the engine running the input shaft is spinning...nothing else is, only that gear (finger pointing to Layshaft first gear). Until the lay shaft moves no oil moves up to the other upper shaft to the bushes of the sleeve gear pinion.
So holding clutch "in" is not engaging the main shaft. That is my observation anyway.
Right?
Regards,
Tom
CNN
Click to expand...
 
Ugh Tom no I hadn't thought of that downside only the center bearing wear. Crap this mean the Only Time oil can get to sleeve bushes is in 4th. Another reason not to let Commando so pleasantly idle away their guts in N. Reminds me of Start Trek episode they discover wrap drive decays permanently the environment of everywhere they visited so would have to give it up. Wonder if I'll ever learn all there is to know on Commandos but getting to point learning more than wanted too.
 
hobot said:
Ugh Tom no I hadn't thought of that downside only the center bearing wear. Crap this mean the Only Time oil can get to sleeve bushes is in 4th. Another reason not to let Commando so pleasantly idle away their guts in N.
Click to expand...

No. Not a downside unless you don’t like holding the clutch lever in. Oil will get to the sleeve bushes when the lay shaft is turning. When sitting at a stoplight. Clutch lever should be "in" not click to neutral and sit there waiting.
Clutch “in” allows the clutch basket to revolve with the engine but the disengaged clutch will stop the main shaft from rotating as well as the lay shaft. So no wear in the gearbox. Sorry. Back to the neutral indicator install.
Cheers,
Tom
CNN
 
this is not true. 3rd and 1st main are a spline fit and are spinning there mating layshaft gears in neutral so oil is moving up to lube the upper bush's. if his statement was true you would see a lot more gearbox troubles as people like to hear it run and be revved up in neutral :lol:

CanukNortonNut said:
According to Mick Hemmings gearbox servicing: His quote " Never sit in neutral any longer than you have to because with the engine running the input shaft is spinning...nothing else is, only that gear (finger pointing to Layshaft first gear).
Tom
CNN
Click to expand...
 
bill said:
this is not true. 3rd and 1st main are a spline fit and are spinning there mating layshaft gears in neutral so oil is moving up to lube the upper bush's. if his statement was true you would see a lot more gearbox troubles as people like to hear it run and be revved up in neutral :lol:

CanukNortonNut said:
According to Mick Hemmings gearbox servicing: His quote " Never sit in neutral any longer than you have to because with the engine running the input shaft is spinning...nothing else is, only that gear (finger pointing to Layshaft first gear).
Tom
CNN
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Bill
You are correct on that. But maybe what Hemmings is saying is, there is not enough oil from those gears to dance across the shaft to the Sleeve gear pinion when it is not moving in neutral. Only when the forth gear Lay shaft pinion is transferring oil to the Sleeve gear pinion via the gear mesh will it get the oil to where it is needed.
It is kind of hard to put my head around it but this diagram helps to understand what is taking place in our AMC Pandora’s box.
http://www.rgmnorton.co.uk/csi/1245184/ ... arbox..pdf
Thanks for correcting.
Tom
CNN
 
How funny to read " maybe its not worth it" as asking any woman or me will point out nothing about old motorcycles hobby is worth it by any logic but how to spend what time is left as you like reworking the wheel or throwing up hands with money in them to get a shell and the cam plate made for N light switch.

I have Trixie AMC 2/3rds apart but for pulling the shafts and box out cradle so will investigate oil travel paths in and out of N but think d/t the resting oil level that only time oil can get to the sleeve bushes is when there is no rotation difference while rolling in 4th to splash oil above to dribble down and try to weep back into the tiny gap it was activitly squeezed/pumped out when these aparts are rotating. If in 4th most the time time then sticky thick lube likely remains effective during short intervals of lower gear use but if spending long periods in lower gears ATF tend to flow through enough to cool the surfaces before getting dry baked into abrasive ceramics. The more learn on AMC the more miraculous they seem.
 
the trouble with your thinking is that is NOT how the sleeve gear bush's get there oil. to function the way you are thinking the sleeve gear would need oil holes in the bottom of the gear tooth through to the bush. the bush's in the sleeve gear get there oil from what is carried up with the third gear pair. the gear set will act like an oil pump as the oil gets between the pair and squirt's out towards the 4th and 2nd pair. also the 1st gear pair is doing the same thing. this is also how the clutch release mechanism gets flooded with oil and finds its way to the clutch unless you have a sealed bearing on that end of the mainshaft.

CanukNortonNut said:
Bill
You are correct on that. But maybe what Hemmings is saying is, there is not enough oil from those gears to dance across the shaft to the Sleeve gear pinion when it is not moving in neutral. Only when the forth gear Lay shaft pinion is transferring oil to the Sleeve gear pinion via the gear mesh will it get the oil to where it is needed.
It is kind of hard to put my head around it but this diagram helps to understand what is taking place in our AMC Pandora’s box.
http://www.rgmnorton.co.uk/csi/1245184/ ... arbox..pdf
Thanks for correcting.
Tom
CNN
Click to expand...
 
bill said:
the trouble with your thinking is that is NOT how the sleeve gear bush's get there oil. to function the way you are thinking the sleeve gear would need oil holes in the bottom of the gear tooth through to the bush. the bush's in the sleeve gear get there oil from what is carried up with the third gear pair. the gear set will act like an oil pump as the oil gets between the pair and squirt's out towards the 4th and 2nd pair. also the 1st gear pair is doing the same thing. this is also how the clutch release mechanism gets flooded with oil and finds its way to the clutch unless you have a sealed bearing on that end of the mainshaft.

CanukNortonNut said:
Bill
You are correct on that. But maybe what Hemmings is saying is, there is not enough oil from those gears to dance across the shaft to the Sleeve gear pinion when it is not moving in neutral. Only when the forth gear Lay shaft pinion is transferring oil to the Sleeve gear pinion via the gear mesh will it get the oil to where it is needed.
It is kind of hard to put my head around it but this diagram helps to understand what is taking place in our AMC Pandora’s box.
http://www.rgmnorton.co.uk/csi/1245184/ ... arbox..pdf
Thanks for correcting.
Tom
CNN
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Bill,
Thanks for the response. I am intrigued by what you are saying so rather than continuing off topic with this thread. :oops: I will start another one.
Cheers,
Tom
CNN
 
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