how hard go you have to kick a commando

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rgrigutis

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i've got a '72 w/ a cold start prob. over the last 6 months i've cleaned the 930's, installed an old boyer micro mark3 that i scavenged off my 2a project, new plugs and leads, and 2 new 6v coils. i had the bike starting cold on the 2nd or 3rd kick. the idle on the old 930's just wasn't there and the slides were sticking so i replaced the amals w/ 2 jrc 30mm carbs. now i've got good idle, just super performance all the way thru the range but cold starting is 20-25 kicks. the guys at jrc are really good. sent me an assortment of pilots and have really supported their product. the jrc's have no choke but rather a fuel enrichment valve. these carbs are modeled off the heihin pwk.

i think i may have become spoiled w/ the kicking effort involved w/ the choked amals in regard to cold starts. i could start just sitting in the saddle and pushing the lever thru. i've ratcheted up my kicking a few notches but still stubborn cold start. also what's the easiest starting ignition? i've heard good stuff about tri spark. i've laid the plug on the motor while kicking thru and spark is there and w/ the bike running on 1 cylinder and the other plug grounded i've got a big fatboy of a spark. the problem started when i switched carbs tho. any comments or suggestions apprecciated. thanks, rick
 
Give the bike a moment to fill the choke circuit, open the throttle wide open, kick it through, then turn on the key and do it again with about 1/2 throttle.

Once it fires, set the idle up a tad high, let it settle in, cut the engine.

Next time, go through the same steps, but after you turn on the key, don't give it any throttle, just kick it good and hard.

You might still need to adjust the low speed mix screw 1/2 turn and see if it helps, if not, go 1/2 turn the other way and try it.
 
You mentioned that your carb is based on the keihin and has an enricher valve. This is similar to the carbs used on Harleys through the 1990's. I assume your carb has a a lever or push/pull knob to operate the enricher. The enricher system on the Harley set up will not work if you open the throttle while the enricher knob is pulled out.

If you are using the enricher on cold starts with the throttle open this could be the cause of the hard cold starts.

HTH

Bazz
1970 Bonneville
1973 750 Commando
1993 Harley Dyna Wide Glide
 
Too bad you can't adapt a set of ticklers. Best darn thing on a carb for getting a cold motor to start. I take it those carbs to not have an accel pump. The Harley carbs did and 3 or 4 squirts always brings mine to life first crank.
 
You have to be sure that the slide is down low enough to get the carb operating on it's idle circuit. It is possible that when you set the idle hot you are not really using the idle circuit. When the bike is truly running on this idle circuit it will be very sensitive to air screw adjustments and if you are some where above this point with the slide adjustment it will be less sensitive to air screw adjustments. Having to kick the bike 20 times would have me working on it. As always if you have not strobe timed and lashed the valves don't bother the carb.
 
Politely put.
I like my Amals.
As for the rest of what I would like to say, I will button my lip.
 
It's wierd, but the routine I posted is how I finally got a 53 Triumph to run with a PWK.

Some things can't be explained using simple logic.

As norbsa said, don't screw with the carb if there are other things that are not yet certain to be correct...

...and fresh plugs are always a good idea.
 
Seems like it's not getting rich enough mixture when cold as others have suggested, my MKIII starts first or second kick when tickled up on both carbs - so wet I find hard to believe it starts compared to my Jap stuff. Having used amals on many old bikes I find them fine, easy to balance and set up, relatively economical and never a problem running lean - must be because the wear quickly. Also, I have some NGK Iridiums fitted and these I find just super, as you kick it over and in the past it would fire but not catch, these plugs will catch and start no problem at all, kicking it over seems less effort as well as I know as soon it sparks it will catch and run.
 
Never forget the old adage: "Ninety percent of carburetor problems are electrical". In the past I've found that a good hot spark, properly delivered at the correct time, solves a lot of carburetor problems.
 
JimC said:
Never forget the old adage: "Ninety percent of carburetor problems are electrical". In the past I've found that a good hot spark, properly delivered at the correct time, solves a lot of carburetor problems.
Click to expand...

I thought it was "Ninety percent of electrical problems are carburator." :mrgreen:
 
Madnorton said:
I have some NGK Iridiums fitted and these I find just super, as you kick it over and in the past it would fire but not catch, these plugs will catch and start no problem at all, kicking it over seems less effort as well as I know as soon it sparks it will catch and run.
Click to expand...

Madnorton
The Iridiums sound good. Can you tell me their number
Thanks
Bob
 
I have a set of those and when the floats are set low enough for the carbs to pick up fuel they start first kick. However then they run over from the bowl vents. If you set them high enough to not run over, even with the vent pick ups extended they are a multi kick starter. My vendor does not seem to have a clue about this and no real specs are available.
The carbs seem to be modified just enough from the original PWK specs to be annoying.
I may go back to my Amals or perhaps modify some real Japanese carbs.
 
All these starting issues baffle me used a pair of amals for the best part of 15 years and with the right procedure bike would start 2-3 kicks when the amals wore out fitted a Mikuni 36 and after setting correctly 80% of starts are first kick. Not being a smart alec but interested to hear from owners who also have 1-2 kickstart Commando's maybe some info on setup and plug type will help others..:-) IMHO
 
The NGK iridiums are BPR7EIX, and this part number can be found on their website partfinder menu as it still lists Nortons.
As for starting - maybe I'm just lucky, I run a bog standard Boyer now 14 years old, carbs have never been refurbished in 29k miles either. I set the carbs as per the manual but with the tick over slightly higher, as I'm stright into town traffic when leaving home. One thing I do is always to set and adjust the carbs up on a hot engine not a half warmed up engine, this ensures running is correct for 99.9% of the time the bike is running, and will ensure cross season variations here in the UK can be coped with though I know some members getter larger variations in temperature than we get here in the southern part of the UK.
Another check for starting, is try and start with the choke applied on a day you would not consider using the choke, if it starts easier and I remember rightly this indicates that normal starting without the choke is lean and should be made richer. I suppose if you have not got a choke on the carbs, try moving the pilot air screw to a richer position 1/8 turn at a time and see how you get on.
 
Twin 932 Mk1 Concentrics on my Mk111 . Boyer and Iridium plugs, though I don't think they make any real difference to starting. Bike is idle-mixture tuned each time on single cylinder running. While this is well-known to many, many problems with Amals is that, frankly, they are worn out. Or have been sitting, disused, for a long time, allowing gum to form in the small internal passages and jets, particularly in the idle circuits. They will never run properly if this happens. I know of people who have boiled the carb bodies in a strong caustic/detergent solution, and claimed success. New Amals are not expensive, now, and are easy to tune when new. Mine have done 10,000 miles, and still start first kick, hot or cold. But they will not last forever. Starting ease will vary with ambient temperature, too, IMO. Leaving the original air slide setup intact will assist in temperatures getting down to freezing, in my experience. But, as I rarely have to do this, I have removed mine, to take any possibility of malfunction out. I remember one run, when the frost was deep on the bike seat in the morning, and mine stayed alight on the second kick, using the slides and tickling. Tickling alone will suffice in more normal temperatures. Any properly set-up Commando, regardless of what kind of carburetion, should start by the third kick.
 
As for cleaning the internal orifices and drillings, I've never found anything that works as well as a 1-gallon can of Berryman's Chem-Dip.

It'll strip rock-hard varish out after a 30 minute soak.

Nasty, nasty stuff, but IT WORKS.
 
It sure takes a mighty boot under the best of circumstances. One of the big differences in how the same bike reacts from time to time can relate to wet sumping. If the bike has sumped, kicking can take a bit more time and effort.
 
ranmar850 said:
Twin 932 Mk1 Concentrics on my Mk111 . Boyer and Iridium plugs, though I don't think they make any real difference to starting. Bike is idle-mixture tuned each time on single cylinder running. While this is well-known to many, many problems with Amals is that, frankly, they are worn out. Or have been sitting, disused, for a long time, allowing gum to form in the small internal passages and jets, particularly in the idle circuits. They will never run properly if this happens. I know of people who have boiled the carb bodies in a strong caustic/detergent solution, and claimed success. New Amals are not expensive, now, and are easy to tune when new. Mine have done 10,000 miles, and still start first kick, hot or cold. But they will not last forever. Starting ease will vary with ambient temperature, too, IMO. Leaving the original air slide setup intact will assist in temperatures getting down to freezing, in my experience. But, as I rarely have to do this, I have removed mine, to take any possibility of malfunction out. I remember one run, when the frost was deep on the bike seat in the morning, and mine stayed alight on the second kick, using the slides and tickling. Tickling alone will suffice in more normal temperatures. Any properly set-up Commando, regardless of what kind of carburetion, should start by the third kick.
Click to expand...

My personal preference would be to use original Amals that have been sleeved. Even if I bought new bodies I'd immediately get them sleeved.
 
Even if I bought new bodies I'd immediately get them sleeved
Click to expand...

Slightly overdone, get yourself new bodies (or complete carbs) and buy CHROMED BRASS throttle slides, then your Amal set-up will last twice as long.
 
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