How far is to far?

When it comes to modifiying a old Commando,when is the line crossed?
I other words how much can be changed ,when we look at and think about the original concept,cast our eyes over the "New creation" and think thats just to much :!:

This entered my mind when i looked at some customers bikes at Norvil last week, One had those huge twin discs with 4 pots ....well it's going to stop thats for sure..if the stock tyre dont give up first.

kenny Deers look great...but when does great become gross? and dont say when the engine is replaced with a yam R1 :lol:

That is an impossible question to answer. There are members here who don't think you should upgrade them at all. Then there are those that feel that the machine was in evolution when it rolled off the assembly line and they have been ever since. I'd say you have gone too far when it is no longer any fun!

Russ

When the isolastics are eliminated is my main criteria then missing Z plates.

You will get as many opinions as an oil thread.

The Commando itself is a work of art. You can line up all the UJM's, other Brit bikes, German and Italian and the Commando stands out. It has unique lines and an unmistakeable stance. Messing too much with that takes away from the mystique.

I like to keep the original look of the bike intact. Other than a trained eye shouldn't be able to pick out mods from 15 feet away.

Changes made should be for Safety and reliability. Brakes and 'weave' stability should be addressed. I also 'upgraded' to electronic ignition and modern tire treads. Shocks were replaced with aftermarket look-a-likes. I do have a single Mikuni.

I am also a proponent of painting back to an original color and had planned to do so but I cannot bring myself to paint over the off white that had been on this bike throughout it's long slumber. It is in too good shape and it makes it fairly unique.

That all being said. I used to shudder when I would see a perfectly good specimen ripped into and by the time it was finished, it was unrecognizable. Now I just say live and let live. Just don't come near my bike with that blow torch and angle grinder.

There is nothing nicer to see than a completely original stock standard Mk2A or Mk3 Commando whick looks like it just came out of the factory. I would love to own a bike like that. However unless my bike was in that condition, I would modify it so that the handling was spot on terrific. I wouldn't t olerate the 'weave' for a microsecond. I haven't looked, but I believe it could be possible to make up new Z plates to pick up the ends of the pivot spindle with a couple of silentbloc bushes. I know Peter Williams and Dave Cr oxford might have been heros to you guys , but I believe some of the engineering in the commando is very sus. A lot of things were done by the British, simply to satisfy fashion, A big twin will never be as smooth as a CB750. I believe a 650ss was an excellent bike, but the decision was obviously made to move away from a near racer towards what the Japanese were selling. Kenny Dreers bikes look good, but my feeling is that if I'm going to ride a British bike I should be able to feel the hairs growing on my chest. Those old bikes were unreliable, noisy, leaked oil - horrible compared with a Japanese four cylinder bike, but they satisfied a niche market of serious motorcyclists. If I want comfort and reliability, I drive my Mazda six motorcar with its six speed manual gear box. I don't allow myself t o be bored shitless droning up the highway on a turbine smooth motorcycle. When I see and hear an original commando, I always get a very good feeling .

I think once a new Norton is out in the market and the cost of modifying the old model is more expensive than buying the new, a lot of the modifications (on the old ones) will stop. Excess or exclusiveness is human nature and affluency is the only limitation.

Crikey : Whens a Commando NOT a Commando . :? when the isolastics fall off . 8)

Production Expediancies meant cost related cut backs . Anyones a mug not to sort out Ign. & Carbs .

As for the rest , were the Works F - 750 racers ' Commando's ' . :x :roll: I should think so really , though if not in name
they'd appear to be the natural line in development , if PERFORMANCE is the object of the game .

Dropping a twin cam in one would make it a ' Challenge ' by designation , following factory lore .

Apparently they built some with Yamaha Triples in them at some stage . :evil: The trouble with these Jap. bits , is if they dont know when to stop ,
theyll end up with a Honda or Yamawazaki if they dont know when to stop changeing things . :lol:



Mr Norton's Take ; http://nortonsnortons.blogspot.com.au/ : on it . :lol:

I wouldn't t olerate the 'weave' for a microsecond. I haven't looked, but I believe it could be possible to make up new Z plates to pick up the ends of the pivot spindle with a couple of silentbloc bushes.

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Aw now Alan you have an 850 Norton engine in a solid Seely not an isolastic Commando with Z plates. To suggest binding the vibrating spindle to the frame mounted Z plates would likely transmit vibes, which real Commandos don't. Ms Peel has a way to relieve swing arm loads that depends on Z plates though. As for the handling with very simple links, one very robust and two other compliant ones, my next phase of hobby is track days wiping sneers off the non isolastic corner cripples and not break a sweat. I am besides myself on the genius of the isolastic system and trying to get others to see what they are missing out on. There's a thread on how to attract younger crowd to real Commando, hehehe...

Well I think it’s based on just what you want to do with your commando…. show it, or ride it. In 1972 the combat came out with one of the first production disk brakes. Even in 72 traffic conditions you needed silverback gorilla death grip to make it work. :? Some say it was the early version of ABS braking systems, as you could never lock it up. Trying to drive with this original set up in today’s ABS 4 -wheel disk traffic is pretty demanding. :shock: You can re-sleeve original equipment or go all out with RGM/ CNW disk systems. One looks more like original but these are much better than by gone years and much safer. Tires have come a long way. TT100 Dunlop K-81 was the preferred skin in the day. Now I look for more modern Tire design like the AM-26 Roadriders. This can all be done with original wheel diameter. Again safety is my primary goal. Modern shocks, EI, and Seats can be had to make your bike more reliable and pleasurable to ride. My bike will never win a Concours Event…. but I will ride, not trailer it to the event.
Cheers,
Thomas
CNN

I like the originality though I'm rebuilding a 750 with all original pieces from 1968 to 1975 mixed.
Ciao
Piero

wow! i am impressed, 3 pairs of grips and a DIY vice! and appears to be indoors?

Too far?
My feeling is...... Do what you want, it's a machine!

If "customizing" a motorcycle is an Art to you, your form of expression, then I say
make it the way that you want.

hobot said:

When the isolastics are eliminated is my main criteria then missing Z plates.

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Hobot, the photo you posted is , so far, the ugliest "Norton" eye have ever seen!

Well I've got a big Norvil front disk on mine which was on there when I got the bike. I'm often in two minds about the look of the thing myself, but at the end of the day it does what I need it to do in that it pulls the bike up nice & fast when needed. What really annoys me (and its happened a few times) is some ponce sneering down his nose at it and making some derogatory comment, and when challenged about their 'perfectly original bike' they admit they only ever use it on a Sunday or some high holiday & never in the rain, preferring to keep it as a show bike. I've seen plenty of Commandos that personally I don't like, but if the owner is happy who am I to suggest otherwise?

NOT too far-



The one with the glass tank - TOO far.

So, the line is somewhere in between these two, if that narrows it down any...

Hobot that is art NOT good looking art but art ( my thoughts) kinda like A OCC chopper looks cool but not going to ride it .

I think Russ put it best.. When its not fun anymore its too far , BUT i would like to add when it becomes unrideable ITs too far

OH ya Grandpaul you still have a awesome bike there and its the reason i started my build and not just part out the basket case i picked up 2 Years ago

I agree Grandpauls is still a norton Commando,and would turn many heads at "My" local Sunday gathering Matlock Bath, when on summer Sundays hundreds of bikers turn up.
Steve Hobits picture . brillant engineering ,Who ever built it or why ? Its just fantastic ..time and money must have never been an issue. But way,way ott.

There are two makes of motorcycles that are so close kissing cousins they have family type resentments among them for the same reasons, you can completely alter them and they are still looked upon by strangers and the builders as if still worthy of their manufacture/s logo - Harley Davison and Norton Commandos. A Commando has Norton twin canted engine in isolastic mounts that sport Z plates. Everyone but me thinks the isolastic are a handling hindrance, while I find iso frame makes the Commando the tool of choice to wipe sneers off in total ease and comfort. Ya can rationalize all ya like away from this all ya like, but w/o isolastics and Z plates its just another customizer trying to work around the best features and likely never riding to point its really a benefit.

I bought a Combat off and on line auction here in NZ 'sight unseen" it was pretty tidy but not concours, main thing for me was good solid mechanicals and original looks.
I rode it the 600 mls home and have done about 4000 miles on it in the last two years, improvements so far are head steady , tri spark reg and Ikons . I have a Lansdowne kit to go into the front but would like to sleeve the brake at the same time.
The Amals are sleeved and I have binned the horrible K and N filter and gone to the original looking one, starts easliy which is good as I could not bring myself to fit a Jap carb.....no issues with being Japanese....just can't see why its needed.
I ride a 30 year old BMW every day to work, its fine in the modern traffic....sometimes I take the Commando....but it seems more of an adventure than a commute....also it brings out the hoon in me.....must be the kick starting and the exhaust
I paid in the higher range 9K ( $ 7200 US) but its been a good machine and still worth what I paid...if not a bit more.....better than money in the bank and more fun.