Higher output stator for LED lights

My original stator (with podtronics box) isn't putting out enough for my LED lights. An easy test is to start the bike, jump my car battery and then it gets brighter.

So there is the Lucas brand #47239 16 amp single phaze from Wassel or Andover
or
The Wassel brand 16 amp 200 watt single phaze from Low brow customs (can't find it at the Wassel site).
or
The # 47205 16 amp 200 watt single phaze by Emgo from Emgo or JRC etc


Who is happy with what?

Jim

I’m puzzled.

LED lights use less power than incandescent bulbs.

jseng1 said:

My original stator (with podtronics box) isn't putting out enough for my LED lights. An easy test is to start the bike, jump my car battery and then it gets brighter.

So there is the Lucas brand #47239 16 amp single phaze from Wassel or Andover
or
The Wassel brand 16 amp 200 watt single phaze from Low brow customs (can't find it at the Wassel site).
or
The # 47205 16 amp 200 watt single phaze from Emgo


Who is happy with what?

Jim

Click to expand...

Seeing as I have been playing the power game with my lack-luster Alton rotor (new one on the way under warranty), how much power is your LED drawing? What engine RPM are you conducting this test at?

With my typical LED bulb (draws 2.2 Amps, less than half that of an H4 halogen), I have my draw at 1500 RPM down to 61 watts. An original RM19 would keep up with that at normal cruising speed.

(I say typical, as I have a 12 watt LED fitted currently to make my wounded Alton work so I can keep riding the bike. Fine for daytime use, but riding by candle light at night.)

This doesn't answer your question, but how many watts of light and what voltage are you seeing with engine running?

Generally the stator doesn't go bad unless damaged. More likely the rotor to lose magnetism. You need to do some testing of output before randomly replacing parts.

For most power:
Lucas RM24 High Output 3 phase Stator
(WW10192L or LU47244)

This is a 14.5 amp stator and in my opinion is superior to the single phase 16 amp RM23 because you are making more power at lower revs.

But you need to run it with a decent reg/rec or you’ll melt the stator.
Ideally a series-type unit (I use and recommend the Shindengen SH775)

Your alternative to a combined reg/rec is running a couple of zeners and a separate 3 phase rectifier like this $10 VS-36MT60.

This combo would, in my opinion be far superior to a short-type reg/rec like a Podtronics or a comparable unit.


As mentioned already though, LEDs should be drawing less than the equivalent filament lamps.
So are you sure you actually want to be beefing up your charging circuit?

With all your power consumers switched on, you are drawing about 10 amps, which is the same as you are generating.
So this is good and healthy.

Don’t forget, you’re supposed to be charging at the same rate as the current you’re drawing.
Excess power produced needs to go somewhere if you are not consuming it.

As already said, sounds like a rotor that has not much magnetism left.
The way to go is checking voltage on battery terminals at different rpm.
It's quite normal that it don't charge when idling or at low rpm.
At higher rpm voltage shall rise to about 14.5 V.
On a BSA single I rewired a couple of months ago, probably the original single phase alternator, Boyer ignition, a Reg/rec similar to a Podtronic, to my surprise it slightly charged the battery idling with H4 lights on.

The front light specs are below:

ED Wattage: 36W (12x3W LED)
Working VoltageC 9-32V
Operating Amperage: 3A -12V

Can't find the specs for the rear light.
that and one instrument light is all I'm running (magneto ignition)
doesn't seem like much

It doesn't brighten any more at high revs. Bit brightens when I jump the car battery (car idling).

I tried a volt meter. It shows 12.6 on the car. But only 3.0 on the bike – maybe because it has no battery and so won’t read? Or somethings wacked. Doesn't seem like only 3 would even light up. I’ll check rotor magnetism – shade tree way of by seeing if the magnet will lift off the table with a piece of metal.

jseng1 said:

The front light specs are below:

ED Wattage: 36W (12x3W LED)
Working VoltageC 9-32V
Operating Amperage: 3A -12V

Can't find the specs for the rear light.
that and one instrument light is all I'm running (magneto ignition)
doesn't seem like much

I'll try a volt meter, it doesn't brighten any more at high revs. Bit brightens when I jump the car battery (car idling).

Click to expand...

That is really a minimalistic electrical draw - you should not need a high powered alternator to power that.

The rotor seems fine - it hangs on a wrench unless you shake it off. Why would the volt meter only indicate 3?

You are running no battery on the bike? I have heard that a Podtronic does not function well without a battery. Do you have an old school rectifier and Zener diode you can try?

jseng1 said:

The front light specs are below:

ED Wattage: 36W (12x3W LED)
Working VoltageC 9-32V
Operating Amperage: 3A -12V

Can't find the specs for the rear light.
that and one instrument light is all I'm running (magneto ignition)
doesn't seem like much

It doesn't brighten any more at high revs. Bit brightens when I jump the car battery (car idling).

I tried a volt meter. It shows 12.6 on the car. But only 3.0 on the bike – maybe because it has no battery and so won’t read? Or somethings wacked. Doesn't seem like only 3 would even light up. I’ll check rotor magnetism – shade tree way of by seeing if the magnet will lift off the table with a piece of metal.

Click to expand...

Have you tested the AC side of the circuit, directly off of the stator wires, nothing else attached? You should get 22-24 VAC without many engine revs, and if you connect an incandescent head light bulb across the stator wires, it should light it up without many revs as well.

You may have shorted or open circuited stator coils.

Shorted coil(s) can be checked by an ohm meter. Connect one meter lead to one of the stator leads and the other to the iron frame of the stator. The ohm meter should read infinity or open circuit i.e. the coil wires are NOT in contact with the iron frame. Then check again connecting the meter lead to the other stator lead.

A broken wire (open circuit) in one or more coils is more difficult to isolate. Easiest test is AC check as given by Reply #12 above. A broken wire in one coil takes 2 coils out of the circuit as the coils are wired in series pairs, resulting in a low voltage. You should have some minimal load connected when checking AC .... a load resistor or an incandescent lamp.

A more definitive test for an open circuited coil involves carefully scraping the varnish off the coil wire at each end of the coil, and connecting an ohm meter at the bare wire points. Keep in mind that even with an open coil, the meter will measure resistance the indirect way thru the other coils. One has to compare ohm values from measurements on every coil to deduce an anamoly caused by an open coil.

You will save a lot of work If you can find a specification for nominal resistance for your model stator.

Slick

Edit: another possibility is a shorted diode in the Podtronics. The AC test as given by Derek will show good AC voltage if the stator is good. Then, connect AC wires to Pod box, and with no load, the DC voltage should be minimum 13.8 volts if the Pod box is good. If not, swap out Pod box.

Mike40M said:

On a BSA single I rewired a couple of months ago, probably the original single phase alternator, Boyer ignition, a Reg/rec similar to a Podtronic, to my surprise it slightly charged the battery idling with H4 lights on.

Click to expand...

This post is in line with my thinking.

If your harness is old there may be a lot of resistance in the connections or even the wire. If you have not ground strapped the electrical components you could be dropping voltage.

I assume that you have made the usual tests with the stator wires, battery (if you run one) or done a capacitance test on the capacitor (if you run one); they don't live forever.

I agree that you do not need a higher output charging system, instead add up the watts your electrical components require and choose a charging system that isn't major overkill, as mentioned earlier what the "appliances" don't use is turned into heat with the short type reg/recs. I was told by a expert that the zeners and rectifiers currently available are not reliable or consistent which is not to say that you won't get lucky. There is nothing wrong with using a Podtronics or a Tympanium short type but they will be much happier if they don't have to deal with excess power. The other part of having a reg/rec bleed off heat is where they are usually mounted near the battery where air flow is not great.

Best.

@jseng1 the Podtronics won’t work properly unless there is a battery (or at the very least a capacitor across the positive and negative terminals)

I would think that is probably why you are seeing a strange reading of three volts.

• A lead acid battery has 2.1 volts per cell, so you should see around 12.6 volts at rest (ie with your multimeter across the battery and everything on the bike switched off)

• With your engine started and idling with the headlight on this will probably drop to under 12 volts DC with your multimeter across the battery.

• At between 3,000 and 4,000 rpm you should see 14 to 15 volts DC with your multimeter across the battery.
  This shows you are getting the right kind of charge to your battery, no components have failed and that your charging system is operating as designed.

If you want to test the Podtronics, there is a guide here that walks you through it - it only takes a couple of minutes, and is worth doing anyway for peace of mind:

why no battery?

Because it is heavy and you have to replace it regularly?

maylar said:

why no battery?

Click to expand...

He is using a magneto - no point in a battery if he can get it to power his lights.

Then I agree that the stock rectifier / zener is a better choice than a Podtronics. You're only going to get about 7.5 volts at idle, no matter what stator you use.

I am running a magneto with a Podtronic and all LED lights. I use a 2.5 AH battery that keeps the Podtronic happy and keeps the lights bright at idle. I have one of the 3 color LED voltage sensors which tells me the stator is loafing at 2500 rpm while keeping up the lights.

Slick