Heavy Vibration Issue

Dave
Not wishing to teach egg sucking but....
Be careful the loose rear chain isn't because it is pulling the gearbox rearward - over tensioning your belt.
My first 9000 miles with the belt primary(cNw) were characterised by that phenomenon.
I checked belt tension every 500 miles. Seems to have settled down now.
I have put it down to a "slippery" newly powdercoated cradle.
Cheers - and good luck!
Hi Rob, the chain is new and before I went out on Saturday it had only done around 10 miles when I ran the bike with the cover off to check the belt tracking under load. I’m certain that the chain slack is down to the initial stretch, the clutch and engine sprocket are still aligned and nothing has moved the belt having the same level of slack as it started with. I will be double checking though.

Dave
 
So here goes, I have just fixed an RGM belt primary to my ‘74 850, yesterday I took it for a ride to test the belt tension and confirm everything was ok, I had previously run the bike with the primary cover off to check alignment and whilst out yesterday day I stopped a couple of times to check the belt tension when the bike was at fully operating temperature, all was well there is no tension on the belt when it’s hot and it still has over 1/2" of free play.

Now to my problem, I had covered around 150 miles in Wales on a mixture of roads from single trackers, hilly minor roads and a few main roads all with the aim of making the bike work to generate heat and test the belt tension. I stopped for a late breakfast in Rhayader, vey goos it was too, then fired the bike up for the 110 mile run home feeling very pleased with myself that all was well. Anyway all was not well, under moderate load I was getting a really heavy vibration through the foot pegs this was present in all gears so I stopped at Crossgates, whipped the primary cover off and had a look assuming it must be to do with the recent work. What I found was that the belt was still at the correct tension, there was no evidence of the belt tracking either in or out and no marks on the outer edge of the belt (I’ve stripped it this morning and can now verify that there are no marks on the inner edge of the belt either.) My assumption while sat at the side of the road was that either the clutch centre nut had come loose or the retaining circling had failed or deflected but obviously couldn’t get to this as I didn’t have my diaphragm spring tool with me. I came to this conclusion as I could feel a very small amount of play in the clutch basket. I called aa pal who picked my trailer up and made the 200+ mile round trip to collect me. Thanks Rog, you are a star.

We move on to this morning and the strip down. I took the primary cover off and as with yesterday all was well, the tab washer was still in place and the play I could feel yesterday has all but disappeared probably due to the change in temperature. I had torqued the centre nut to 50 ft lbs, less that the 70 ft lbs in the workshop manual which is generally considered to be too much. I undid the centre nut which was snug but certainly nowhere near the 50 ft lbs I’d tightened it to, I removed the clutch basket and centre checked the location of the circlips (bearing and clutch centre) and checked the bearing which is perfect. The clutch retaining circling on the main shaft looks ok but obviously will be replaced when I reassemble. In addition to this I have checked:

1. Checked gearbox mountings top and bottom - all good there
2. Checked for play in the main shaft - all good there (the gearbox was rebuilt about 5,000 miles ago by Norman White before I acquired the bike)
3. Gearbox oil level - all good
4. Belt alignment - all good there as also indicated by the belt
5. Wheel bearings - all good there
6. Engine mounts including those to the gearbox plates
7. The spacer behind the clutch that encapsulates the main shaft circlip was where it should be

One thing that I noticed today was that the drive chain was a bit loose, I has to replace this when I fitted the belt drive as the existing chain was too short, the slack is just the chain bedding in but I’m wondering if a bit of chain slap might have created the heavy footpeg vibrations? (I am not going to adjust the chain until I have reassembled the primary and tested it otherwise I’m not going to know where the issue was assuming it disappears).

What I intend to do is reassemble the clutch with a new circlip, torque if up, leave it for 24 hours and re-torque it, I’m not sure if this will achieve any thing but it will allow any deflection in the circlip to be identified (if there is any movement to achieve the same torque), test ride and see if the vibes have gone, if not I’ll adjust the chain and test ride again.

So my questions are;

Do yo think I’m on the right track?
Is there anything else I need to check?
Is 50 ft lbs too little or too much torque on the clutch centre nut?
Any other ideas?

I’ll order some circlips today and they’ll be with me on Tuesday so I’ll be back into it on Tuesday evening.

Edit - Just to add after posting I had another thought and have just checked the drive chain for tight spots or bad links and it’s fine.

Dave
Did you notice any new noise with the vibration?
 
Hi Dave,
I suspect your problem has to do with the mainshaft. When spinning it, do you feel any tightness between gears, or observe ovality as the clutch drum rotates?

- Knut
 
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Did your RGM belt kit come with the Red Continental GenIII belt? Just curious. Not a helpful question.

If you can feel a rough clutch at idle it is not the rear drive chain being loose, unless it is so loose it is whipping on the swing arm at idle. Extremely unlikely.

Have you put your hand on the primary cover when the bike is idling? The only time mine feels uncomfortably rough is at cold idle before taking off. It is semi rough when the drum is fully warmed up from riding and the engine is idling.

The belt being too loose will really act rough. It feels like it is piling up in front of the engine pulley and it starts banging on things it should not bang on. I believe the stator mounting hardware runs really close to the belt on a Commando. A loose belt could easily bang on that mounting hardware. Particularly if the belt is trying to climb over the end plate on one side or the other of the engine pulley.

I don't own a Commando anymore, but don't people complain about vibration when the isoelastics are misadjusted?

Anywho, hope for your sanity it does turn out to be the rear chain adjustment.
 
Dellis, if it does turn out to be the chain… don’t tell Rog… tell him he saved you from a catastrophe and is a superstar!

BTW my wife had a breakdown whilst driving with our two daughters recently. So three females alone. The RAC estimated 8 HOURS before they could get to them, at 11.00 at night. They got sorted without the RAC.

Absolutely freakin outrageous!

I’ve been with the RAC for 20 years and am now moving to Green Flag.
 
Hi Dave,
I suspect your problem has to do with the mainshaft. When spinning it, do you feel any tightness between gears, or observe ovality as the clutch drum rotates?

- Knut
The main shaft runs true and there is no roughness in rotation either in neutral or in any gear.

Dave
Did your RGM belt kit come with the Red Continental GenIII belt? Just curious. Not a helpful question.

If you can feel a rough clutch at idle it is not the rear drive chain being loose, unless it is so loose it is whipping on the swing arm at idle. Extremely unlikely.

Have you put your hand on the primary cover when the bike is idling? The only time mine feels uncomfortably rough is at cold idle before taking off. It is semi rough when the drum is fully warmed up from riding and the engine is idling.

The belt being too loose will really act rough. It feels like it is piling up in front of the engine pulley and it starts banging on things it should not bang on. I believe the stator mounting hardware runs really close to the belt on a Commando. A loose belt could easily bang on that mounting hardware. Particularly if the belt is trying to climb over the end plate on one side or the other of the engine pulley.

I don't own a Commando anymore, but don't people complain about vibration when the isoelastics are misadjusted?

Anywho, hope for your sanity it does turn out to be the rear chain adjustment.
The roughness is only under load, on an even throttle the roughness disappears and everything is smooth at idle. The belt isn’t touching the stator mounting posts, there is no evidence on either the posts or the belt.

Dave
 
Dellis, if it does turn out to be the chain… don’t tell Rog… tell him he saved you from a catastrophe and is a superstar!

BTW my wife had a breakdown whilst driving with our two daughters recently. So three females alone. The RAC estimated 8 HOURS before they could get to them, at 11.00 at night. They got sorted without the RAC.

Absolutely freakin outrageous!

I’ve been with the RAC for 20 years and am now moving to Green Flag.
Too late for that, I’ve already mentioned the possibility of it being chain slack :) I’ve not used the RAC before, it comes with my bike insurance, I also have Green Flag and that comes with my bank account so maybe they might be worth a try if I need help in the future.

Dave
 
Hi Dave,
I suspect your problem has to do with the mainshaft. When spinning it, do you feel any tightness between gears, or observe ovality as the clutch drum rotates?

- Knut
I’ve just double checked this as I had only eyeballed the main shaft so I’ve just had a clock on it and it runs perfectly true there’s not even 0.001" of movement in rotation.

Dave
 
Dellis, if it does turn out to be the chain… don’t tell Rog… tell him he saved you from a catastrophe and is a superstar!

BTW my wife had a breakdown whilst driving with our two daughters recently. So three females alone. The RAC estimated 8 HOURS before they could get to them, at 11.00 at night. They got sorted without the RAC.

Absolutely freakin outrageous!

I’ve been with the RAC for 20 years and am now moving to Green Flag.
I know the AA don't prioritise women any more because of sex equality
But I thought the RAC still did!
 
Now that is an interesting point, purely because I had to take a few thousandths off the woodruff key to get the engine pulley to sit on the taper. I measured the depth of the key and had to take about 0.015" off the height to get the pulley to seat correctly and to be 100% sure it was seated correctly I measured it for run out and as a final test removed it with my puller and it was running true and needed plenty of pressure on the puller to get it off so I’m pretty sure that’s not the issue. I’ve rested the rotor bolt for tightness but I’ll double check for any run out.

Dave
 
Last night I meticulously cleaned everything replaced the main shaft circlip, rebuilt the clutch and everything is looking ok. I was late home from work last night so I didn’t get a chance to test ride it. I have checked for frame clearance and engine sprocket run out and both are good. I’ve also checked everything that has been previously mentioned but I haven’t adjusted the chain as I was to see if I still if I have cured the issue.

I’ll keep you posted but it may be the weekend before I get chance to ride the bike. As an aside I managed to leave my favourite gloves behind when Rog picked me up, I called the fuel station I was waiting at, they have found them and are holding on to them for me.

Dave
 
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