Handmade Tanks - Singh Precisions

ontrack said:

First time posting here. Hello all from downunder, I joined this forum mainly because it came up with a google search whilst researching Singh Tanks. I purchased a tank from him and after months I finally received it. It was a bad experience and an even worse tank. In hindsight I wish I had paid the extra money and gone elsewhere. I will post pictures of the tanks soon. From my experience I would not recommend getting anything from him. Cheers Dave

Click to expand...

Hi Dave,

Welcome. The internet is a great place, but it can be a nightmare for someone trying to do business who doesn't care about their customer's. In this part of the world (USA), customer service is still a big part of the equation and Mr. Singh has no clue whatsoever what that means. He is an excuse machine. Now it's coming out that his work isn't that good so the end is near.

Sorry for your bad experience but thanks for posting because you will help other's to stay clear of Singh.

I'm sorry but I can't help myself for adding in even more text. Dang!

I honestly can't imagine a possibly worse experience than Singh. At my 1st interaction with him over 10 months ago, he had a nice shiny finished tank and 2 side covers ready to ship to me from another customer who had "reneged" on their deal with Mr. Singh. Note, these were ready to ship... through various stories of his and timing this was never shipped, then he became unavailable etc. He next comes back with "I will build you a perfect new one and ship it to YOU for inspection and then you can pay me if you're happy .. and you can be my honest critic... etc etc"
10 months later after stating he had a stroke, Next he was unavailable because he was in morning since a US Celebrity he was riding with in the Himalayas had died, never responding to emails for months... still claiming on his Facebook site he has 2 business location in US with local US telephones he can never pass on and various other shenanigans, at 11th hour he ships his best work "as proof" to another person.

He's at best mentally ill... I'm now much more clear he's just dishonest. Most people with older bikes like ours can afford to pay for quality and service. People don't buy Norton's and other vintage bikes because they are cheap. At least MOST don't. They others who do, quickly realize how wrong they were and leave!

IF Singh's product was worth a small fraction (20% or less) than other 'comparable' products... and IF he told you upfront it may take him 10 months to QUICKLY make you a tank.. and IF you knew it would be a long strange trip and if you wre comfy with him ignoring you for months on end... then his product and service has a niche!

However, this market is a niche, one that mostly defined by quality, reputation and service.... Most of us (not all) can afford to spend a bit more money on bikes. Heck its a NORTON!!! Hence why the Singh's out there are so darn INCOMPATIBLE with MOST of our needs.

-->FJ
PS I bet I'm not done... don't you think...

Well I've kept out of this thus far, but now the G&T has got the better of me (hic)!

Despite all the (very long) drawn out process, it seems the Singh did finally produce a tank. And it looked very shiny, and to my eye at least, a very nice shape.

But... Irrespective of how fussy one may or may not be, it does seem to me that one would expect it to fit, ie come complete with mounts. I would not be happy buying a tank that I then had to temp fit, mark up, take to a welders and repair the damage he would inevitably cause, etc!

Singh, that horrid glam rock belt is not adequate compensation for not fitting correct mounts, and it is most certainly not "just like a Manx" !

I would also expect proprietary fuel taps to fit and not rely on 'special' long ones etc.

All only IMHO of course.

FJ,

At this point I just can't remember and don't want to go through all the pages, did you ever get anything from Singh or did you ever send him any money, or are you just out not getting a tank after being promised one? I remember something about the side panels too?

Dave

Yeah, I've been keeping my mouth shut hoping this thread would go away but it seems some people want to promote this guy. A couple of observations about the tank construction. Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the tank top and bottom panels be welded edge to edge and then curved? He's got the tank bottom welded perpendicular to the side of the tank top sheet metal in a blind "T" type of weld. So inside the tank there is no weld and probably a raw sheet metal edge of the tank bottom. I would think this could easily split in a minor crash. Pretty sure all the alloy tanks I've seen (mine included) all the panels are welded edge to edge to form curved corner. Also the welds appear to be squeezed out of a toothpaste tube. The bottom looks extremely rough and non-symmetric. And the painted bottom leads me to think he's hiding something like epoxy or filler. Why would you paint alloy? And the shape towards the rear is just bizarre, and those indents. Very amateurish IMHO.

mschmitz57 said:

Yeah, I've been keeping my mouth shut hoping this thread would go away but it seems some people want to promote this guy. A couple of observations about the tank construction. Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the tank top and bottom panels be welded edge to edge? He's got the tank bottom welded to the side of the tank top sheet metal in a blind "T" type of weld. So inside the tank there is no weld and probably a raw sheet metal edge of the tank bottom. I would think this could easily split in a minor crash. Pretty sure all the alloy tanks I've seen (mine included) all the panels are welded edge to edge to form a corner. Also the welds appear to be squeezed out of a toothpaste tube. The bottom looks extremely rough and non-symmetric. And the painted bottom leads me to think he's hiding something like epoxy or filler. Why would you paint alloy? And the shape towards the rear is just bizarre, and those indents. Very amateurish IMHO.

Click to expand...

I totally agree. I don't like the way the edges are welded. I wouldn't want my tank built like that.

Doug T:
To answer your question. I never gave Singh money. Ironically, it was because I had concerns regarding the quality of his work and schedule from day-1. It was Singh himself whom offered to proactively address my concern by sending me a finished tank and 2 side covers he had in stock at the time, in very short order to see for myself and then pay him if I felt the price was right.

That was over 10 months ago and the circus that ensued! The point goes beyond Singh and his nonsense. It is about what something is worth, and the intrinsic nature of value. Clearly, decent tanks cost more that what Singh can deliver in MONEY, TIME and HASSLE.

Next, I'm a tad surprised that Dave now is also saying Singh's tank joints not being overlaid and the poor quality of his welds. His 1st posting, complete with pictures gave a more favorable, albeit mediocre review. Seems Singh can bend metal and polish alloy. What he can't do is build a decent tank, make it fit with straps and fuel taps and keep any nominal examples of schedule! At least we now have a full use case example of what buying a handmade tank can be....

I still think TAB 2 Classic Tanks from Wales for ~$800 for a delivered tank with honest customer service and communication is a LOT better than the things the Singh's of this world do to any poor buyer.

-->FJ

Well, that' s pretty much the same dealings I had with an eastern Indian gentleman several years ago, promised to send a tank (not alloy but steel) for inspection and payment upon acceptance and when push came to shove it never came. He also promised an OZ dealer to send one and it never happened either. At least we're not out any loot. It must be the Occupation Specialty.

I think a few people have gotten eastern Indian made tanks, but there's scant information on them and the few I've read about have been less than pleased, read the post above. I'm of the opinion the hand made tanks are only worth it if you can pay the big bucks for a reliable maker.

BTW, Sven, I bought my Norton in Alexandria back in 72, I guess you're in DC somewhere? We're not too far away. My first ride with it was down the GW Parkway and across the bridge into DC from Arlington Cemetery, then I had to drive it home to Greenbelt after paying the guy $700.

I kind of hope this thread gets shut down soon, it's really not going anywhere. Maybe we could start another mythological saying about beating a dead horse, or beating a never appearing tank. Oh, well, it's been entertainment.

There are plenty of guys right here on this forum with the means (money) to set up a shop and produce some quality Norton tins.
By the amount of bitching and complaining in this thread, there must obviously be a market for them.

Somebody just do it, and put these guys like singh out of business.

Doug T:
I live in Arlington, work in WaRshinton DC and College Park, MD. I see you live in Hume, VA. Drat.... well I'll be! You see, I'm one of them weekend lunatics that blitz through your quaint pretty town in the Shenandoah foothills on the odd sportbike. 25 years into it I'm still not bored ripping Thornton Gap over and back a few rides. Rest assured though my exhaust is on the more quiet side. I recently bought a 2015 BMW s1000 Premium (aka HP4). It is.... in simple terms... a whole new world of riding with very easy to utilize, game changing electronics. The next frontier is digital with e-suspension control, e-power control, e-gyroscopes, e-linked abs braking, e-traction and e-damping control, and all are happening now!


-->FJ

Maybe that model is put together better than the 1200 RT. I recently rode one of those and it was like a big old wheelbarrow, but with space age electronics, uppy downy windshield buttons and a bunch of gizmos that I don't need but they put them on there because they can.
Vibration level was horrible, both through the bars and through the seat. Handled like a tall 639 lb (wet) bike naturally would. Very clunky trans. Good power.
Couldn't wait to get back on the Commando, but the RT owner did not want to switch back! Seriously!
Made me really wonder about "progress". No doubt some models are better than others.

Glen

SvenSven said:

Next, I'm a tad surprised that Dave now is also saying Singh's tank joints not being overlaid and the poor quality of his welds. His 1st posting, complete with pictures gave a more favorable, albeit mediocre review. Seems Singh can bend metal and polish alloy. What he can't do is build a decent tank, make it fit with straps and fuel taps and keep any nominal examples of schedule! At least we now have a full use case example of what buying a handmade tank can be....

Click to expand...

I gave a fair assessment of what I saw. I pointed out the flaws along with the positives. As I thought of it later I questioned the joining method. I'm clearly not a welding expert nor proclaimed to be but I can see the inherent weakness in the joining method.

The one thing I will provide is a fair assessment to the best of my knowledge. I'm not going to rail against a guy who is trying to make tanks. Sometimes some guidance and positive feedback can go a long way. I just don't see why this has become a personal vendetta for you.

I haven't been to India but I understand it can be a difficult place to live. Perhaps this guy really is trying to make a living at this. Sure he's making mistakes but we all do when we start out. So far the most aggrigious issue is that the shipping company apparently lost a part.

Still if you order any part from someone any great distance from you, you are taking a risk. Perhaps you don't remember the days when you had to wire money to the UK in the hopes that you might get a part? And there are stories of people who never did.

I may or may not see any more samples but if I do I'll provide the same unbiased view that I've already done.

SvenSven said:

Doug T:
I live in Arlington, work in WaRshinton DC and College Park, MD. I see you live in Hume, VA. Drat.... well I'll be! You see, I'm one of them weekend lunatics that blitz through your quaint pretty town in the Shenandoah foothills on the odd sportbike. 25 years into it I'm still not bored ripping Thornton Gap over and back a few rides. Rest assured though my exhaust is on the more quiet side. I recently bought a 2015 BMW s1000 Premium (aka HP4). It is.... in simple terms... a whole new world of riding with very easy to utilize, game changing electronics. The next frontier is digital with e-suspension control, e-power control, e-gyroscopes, e-linked abs braking, e-traction and e-damping control, and all are happening now!


-->FJ

Click to expand...

BMW have gone up yet again! Now fitted with 4 wheels, and a heater,and weather proofing .....and they call it a CAR!

Swooshdave, "I don't see why this has become a personal vendetta for you". Are you kidding? I suggest you go back to the beginning of this thread and follow the trials and tribulations that Sven has endured, then to top it all off when the tank was finally finished it was sent to you instead of Sven. I don't feel that this has become a personal vendetta for Sven but I can see why he might be extremely peeved at the treatment he has received.

Many people have followed this thread with interest, as I suspect, like myself, they perhaps have a secret hankering for an alloy tank for their beloved machine, but $800 is quite a big chunk of change and if there is another cheaper option we might be interested in pursuing it.

Regardless of the quality of the tank and your report, the constant delays, excuses and refusal to answer simple questions puts me off doing business with this fellow. I don't know Sven but he has been an honest and regular contributor to this site and I am agrieved that a fellow enthusiast has been treated so badly, on this basis also I would not do business with Mr Singh.

:roll:

still going on....

Not anymore- locking topic as I think we are done with this- Its obvious.