Getting old sucks

Status
Not open for further replies.
Just received my Atlas clutch actuator arm tonight....anyone know of any home brew dynomometer that is somewhat accurate so I can measure the difference...where on the clutch lever should I measure? Would like to quantify the difference with numbers instead of “feeling” so I can pass on the info in case others are having the same issues...
Thanks for all the replies... and thanks DynoDave for your info and suggestions!
Rod
 
Rod, I wonder if there is an outfit catering for riders with disabilities in the USA..? I ask because it should be possible to activate the clutch by solenoid with a suitable manual override for declutching when engaging 1st gear and setting off. I am sure there are many having similar issues. I did talk to an outfit at a classic meeting in the UK who assure me that it wouldbe possible to arrange a solenoid controlled gear shift. for mine. In the event I with great regret took the avon fairing off and went back to a standard riding position.
 
illf8ed said:
Wow an obscure comment on page 35 of the NOC’s Commando Service Notes.
CLUTCH DRAG: “Yet another cause is for gearbox oil to travel down the pushrod by virtue of the clutch pushrod acting as a pump, when it bends under load.”
Click to expand...

Perhaps obscure means something different where you live. For the record John Hudson and Tim Stevens were both fairly senior service dept NVT employees. John Hudson had worked at Bracebridge Street and then was moved to Woolwich in 1963. On retirement he went back to the grassroots working for Park Lane Motorcycles. His knowledge of matters Norton was wellknown and much admired.
 
Use a hand held luggage scale, and hold it just before the break over point.

Getting old sucks
 
oldmikew said:
Perhaps obscure means something different where you live. For the record John Hudson and Tim Stevens were both fairly senior service dept NVT employees. John Hudson had worked at Bracebridge Street and then was moved to Woolwich in 1963. On retirement he went back to the grassroots working for Park Lane Motorcycles. His knowledge of matters Norton was wellknown and much admired.
Click to expand...
Obscure: not easily seen or difficult to find.
 
maylar said:
Arthritis in my left hand, cubital tunnel syndrome in my right. My left ring finger will lock up after an hour on the bike. Luckily the clutch is well behaved and the other fingers can pull the lever. But yeah, it sucks.
Click to expand...
My old buddy would say, "The pain reminds me I'm still here and alive" he was a real old time wildfowler, punt gunner, and gentleman. Those words have helped me overcome no end.
Dave
 
acotrel said:
Getting old is not all in the mind, but maintaining a healthy mindset is important - however difficult that might be. The most difficult thing as we get older lies in maintaining the urge. I have had a grief thing for about 5 years now - ever since two of my motorsport friends died. Grief does not last forever - you just have to wait it out. For some time now I have not even been able to look at my bike. A few days ago, I started working on it again. But it is still not easy. I do a bit and walk away until the next time - I don't force myself.
Click to expand...
I can associate with that. Since I was maybe 72 or so, the motivation just leaves me. I have to fight to do things during the day, its' not that I'm not capable, it just takes me 2 or 10 times longer. I have to quit once in a while and just relax. But also I have this dizzieness that comes and goes, and it's impossible to ride safely. I also don't sleep well, but that's a function of the times.
 
Britbike850 said:
Just received my Atlas clutch actuator arm tonight....anyone know of any home brew dynomometer that is somewhat accurate so I can measure the difference...where on the clutch lever should I measure? Would like to quantify the difference with numbers instead of “feeling” so I can pass on the info in case others are having the same issues...
Thanks for all the replies... and thanks DynoDave for your info and suggestions!
Rod
Click to expand...

A simple fish scale would act as a pull gauge. Pull at the very end of the lever.

Slick
 
It is strange how even having fun becomes a physical challenge as the years pass. Time gets to where the old HD rocker clutch pedal looks like a blessing. I used to think rather highly of them after the learning curve passed.
 
SteveA said:
It isn't snake oil, or magic, it is based on a very basic mechanical principle of lever length. Inside the box is a lever on a pivot, the cables entering either side can be installed in different position to vary the leverage by changing the relationship of the clutch cable to the short link cable. In fact they can be used either way round.

So you can reduce clutch release movement and reduce the pressure at the handlebar lever (the design intent), or increase the required pressure at the handlebar and increase the clutch release movement (my intent).

I have one here that I want to use to increase the movement of the clutch pushrod to help with a clutch drag problem I have on a Norman White Belt Drive and TTi gearbox combination. I think the problem only exists because of the specific combination, but Brooking850 had similar issues with another belt drive and the TTi box and his chosen bar lever.

I bought mine through 24MX in France, cheaper than the US link our French friend Marin Atlas posted. They are popular on modern off road bikes to reduce lever pressure ( I think mainly for Enduro where fatigue is a bigger issue than in my 20 minute road races! )

24mx

www.24mx.fr www.24mx.fr
Click to expand...

Steve, as I’m sure you know, the TTI box uses a Triumph clutch lifter mechanism. I personally haven’t measured the lift, bit that’s cos it’s always been enough, or indeed, more than enough.

On the Triumph racers, with extra plates in the multi plate cutches, we used to fit reducing levers, not the off the shelf jobs, we’d make simple levers that fixed to the head steady but did the same thing as the unit you showed.

What I’m getting at is, even with extra plates in the multi plate clutches, we still reduced the lift of the Triumph lifter cos it was just lifting an unnecessary amount and causing unnecessary lever effort.

So, it seems strange that you have to look at leveraging the lift higher?

Maybe start by experimenting with different clutch levers?
 
Last edited:
[QUOTE="Fast Eddie, post: 492973, member:

So, it seems strange that you have to look at leveraging the lift higher?

Maybe start by experimenting with different clutch levers?
[/QUOTE]
I would consider, without an additional mechanism, using different clutch levers a non starter. Why? If you have ever changed the standard lever for a non- standard one with different pivot centres, you invariably make it harder to pull the clutch lever back. Featherbed Atlas etc have the clutch lever and lifter mechanism at 7/8 inch between centres, Commando at ?????
 
Bernhard said:
[QUOTE="Fast Eddie, post: 492973, member:

So, it seems strange that you have to look at leveraging the lift higher?

Maybe start by experimenting with different clutch levers?
Click to expand...
I would consider, without an additional mechanism, using different clutch levers a non starter. Why? If you have ever changed the standard lever for a non- standard one with different pivot centres, you invariably make it harder to pull the clutch lever back. Featherbed Atlas etc have the clutch lever and lifter mechanism at 7/8 inch between centres, Commando at ?????
[/QUOTE]

But that’s exactly want a Steve wants to do Bernard... increase the lift...

Measuring the pivot centres of his current lever, and then looking for ones with a bigger measurement to experiment with would seem the way to go.
 
Bernhard said:
Featherbed Atlas etc have the clutch lever and lifter mechanism at 7/8 inch between centres, Commando at ?????
Click to expand...

1.020" by my calipers for MK3
IMO MK3 lever is a better contour than the earlier 71+ pre MK3 lever
Yes OT there are 2 different alloy pre MK3 clutch lever housings
 
I agree that getting old sucks. I have just had the last of my teeth pulled out.
 
DogT said:
I can associate with that. Since I was maybe 72 or so, the motivation just leaves me. I have to fight to do things during the day, its' not that I'm not capable, it just takes me 2 or 10 times longer. I have to quit once in a while and just relax. But also I have this dizzieness that comes and goes, and it's impossible to ride safely. I also don't sleep well, but that's a function of the times.
Click to expand...
Hi Dave,
I’m 67 and retired in January this year. Was wondering how long I can continue riding the Commando...at least five more years? Last Saturday I left for a run to Sonora Pass north of Yosemite. Predicted high in the Central Valley was 108F (that’s 42C for the rest of world).
Unfortunately one of the members called me needing help with a broken down 2007 Triumph T100. I didn’t make it to the pass. The point is I was able to survive the heat and 70mph cruising to get back to civilization. Oh and ILLF8ED the ‘72 combat did great also.
 
That's the spirit! As a lifelong buddy, now passed, said long ago "Yah gotta wanna". Being as 67 is quickly passing I still 'wanna'.

He was charged with willful and wanton behavior shortly after.... 24 on a Triumph 650 Tiger.
 
Fast Eddie said:
I would consider, without an additional mechanism, using different clutch levers a non starter. Why? If you have ever changed the standard lever for a non- standard one with different pivot centres, you invariably make it harder to pull the clutch lever back. Featherbed Atlas etc have the clutch lever and lifter mechanism at 7/8 inch between centres, Commando at ?????
Click to expand...

But that’s exactly want a Steve wants to do Bernard... increase the lift...

Measuring the pivot centres of his current lever, and then looking for ones with a bigger measurement to experiment with would seem the way to go.
[/QUOTE]

My current lever has 33mm between centres, worse with 25mm!

There was no problem with a standard 25mm or 1 1/16" lever when I first built the bike. The issue developed after about 30 odd race starts, maybe more.I have tried several levers and have replaced the Triumph mechanism as a complete unit. There is still clutch drag.

This is at it's worst on a start line when ready to dump it! But it is difficult to select neutral.

I fitted new friction plates last year (there are 4), before Pau and I shall be changing the clutch centre bearing, new one supplied by Norman last year. Personally I can't seen enough wear to warrant it, but maybe it would be best to change the clutch centre as well??

Norman does not have experience of his clutch with the TTi box, so no 'off the shelf solution'.

As I said, I think it is a combination of parts issue.
 
That’s puzzzling Steve, I really can’t offer any solution, but I can reiterate that the Triumph ball type lifter should (does) provide more than enough lift for 4 plates.

If the adjusting sequence is done wrong, it can lose lots of lift. Remember the pushrod must be adjusted at the clutch centre adjuster with the cable totally slack. Only once the clutch pushrod is adjusted is the slack taken out of the cable.
 
Perhaps we should not complain about getting old. Personally I am happy to have the privilege. These days when I walk I sometimes get a bit dizzy, but overall I am OK. I have some unfinished business to do with my Seeley 850. The last time I raced, I was leading the fast guys with the 1100cc CB750s, when it stopped. They were never going to catch me without falling off. I have to go again, just to prove a point about old Norton Twins. Covid 19 might be around for a long time, so I am trying to stay alive by doing all the medical things I need to do. Whenever I have raced, it was never really about winning - only ever about improving the bike. I am surprised the Seeley 850 has come up so well, because I never really believed in it. It is very different. I heard a comment the other day - when I rode under the three leaders at turn two, it did not go un-noticed. Sad that such a silly thing as a loose clip on a fuel line stymied me.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top