Frustrated Beyond Measure

seattle##gs · Oct 22, 2023

Just to rule it out, re-torque the head.

Larry S · Oct 22, 2023

Install a single Mikuni and your problems will be solved.

Big_Jim59 · Oct 22, 2023

Larry S said:
Install a single Mikuni and your problems will be solved.

Seriously thinking about it. I want to ride so bad I am almost willing to throw in the towel and buy something.

Fast Eddie · Oct 22, 2023

Big_Jim59 said:
Seriously thinking about it. I want to ride so bad I am almost willing to throw in the towel and buy something.

Which was my point about calling Greg! I don’t know your skill set with Nortons, but I do know you have some old carbs that have been very much ‘messed with’ and that you have already invested huge time in them and are ‘frustrated beyond measure’!

Sometimes, investing in new parts is way cheaper than accumulating tens or hundreds of hours (unfruitful) labour… IMHO at least.

Big_Jim59 · Oct 22, 2023

I was sitting at the table with my wife and I said "if I pull em off one more time I think they are staying off." I want to ride. I have a Harley front brake disk, what do I care about originality? So the next question is 34mm or 36mm? I am thinking 36.

johnm · Oct 22, 2023

By 34 36 mm I assume you mean Mikuni.?

If it were my bike and had the money I'd stick with 32 mm twin Amal Mk1s like it came with. The updated Premiers set up by a know vendor for a 850 Mk 11. Tell them the airfilter you plan to use.

Fast Eddie · Oct 22, 2023

Big_Jim59 said:
I was sitting at the table with my wife and I said "if I pull em off one more time I think they are staying off." I want to ride. I have a Harley front brake disk, what do I care about originality? So the next question is 34mm or 36mm? I am thinking 36.

It doesn’t really matter as the bottleneck is the 2:1 manifold so there really isn’t much (if any) performance benefit in a 36.

And trying to choose a high performance single Mik kit is a bit of an oxymoron anyway really.

But ‘performance’ is a relative term depending on riding style and use etc and there are LOTS of posts on here comparing Amal’s and Miks, so well worth a bit of research time.

Onder · Oct 22, 2023

Are the new Premiers ally or Mazak? I thought Burlen was going to ally? Well at the current price they might as well gone to 22k gold. Why on earth are they so expensive? Back in the day the Concentrics were simply a design that they could make cheaply.

concours · Oct 23, 2023

Onder said:
Are the new Premiers ally or Mazak? I thought Burlen was going to ally? Well at the current price they might as well gone to 22k gold. Why on earth are they so expensive? Back in the day the Concentrics were simply a design that they could make cheaply.

I concur. Price point. I call them a "beer can with a nail hole" primitive mixer.
But good enough.

As to why they are expensive now? Everything is. And nostalgia sells. Us old guys fuel it.
Perhaps there are Chinese knock offs? But we don't want that rubbish.

Fast Eddie · Oct 23, 2023

Aren’t the Wassell copies made somewhere in a far off land? They are definitely cheaper.

But IMHO the new aluminium Premiers do look excellent, and folk do say they work very well. I fitted some earlier Premiers to my T120 and they certainly transformed that bike!

I do agree that these were designed as a cheap mass produced carb in the day, but that was a LONG time ago and they also wore out in 5 minutes anyway! Now they make them in tiny numbers, with much improved design and materials. So if they work well, are correct to the bike, and will out last any of us on here, are they really so expensive ?

IMHO anyone who came into this game thinking it was a cheap hobby should sell up and get out fast !

B+Bogus · Oct 23, 2023

Big_Jim59 said:
It's clear to me that there is still something blocking the left hand carb pilot jet. I gotta jug of vinegar in the shop for just such an occasion. I guess the old carbs are coming back off. I'll keep you posted.

I am no stranger to this. I had the exact same trouble trying to clear the pilot jet on a Monobloc at that carb has a removable jet!

If you can get to a high pressure airline, that generally works for me.
In the past, with the carbs still on the bike, I've just drained the carbs, removed the air screw and applied the airline into the screw hole with good results.

Others have mentioned investing in a new set of Amal Premiers, and I wouldn't argue against them.

baz · Oct 23, 2023

I don't want to spark yet another single versus twin carb debate
But maybe consider a single mikuni conversion
If you are not planning on earoling around at high speed
And you want a reliable idle and low end grunt it could be your answer

Fast Eddie · Oct 23, 2023

baz said:
I don't want to spark yet another single versus twin carb debate
But maybe consider a single mikuni conversion
If you are not planning on earoling around at high speed
And you want a reliable idle and low end grunt it could be your answer

The Mikuni is cheap, very well made, and does everything you say there Baz. Def a viable option to none headbangers.

I‘m just too dyed in the wool. Two cylinders meanz two carbz.

Unless it’s a twin choke DCOE of course…

Or an SU feeding a blower…!

Saber · Oct 23, 2023

mean gene said:
Slow to rev? Could the cam timing be off a tooth? (don't ask how I know) If your going to change ignition get a Tri Spark

What dont you like about the wassel?

marshg246 · Oct 23, 2023

Big_Jim59 said:
I was sitting at the table with my wife and I said "if I pull em off one more time I think they are staying off." I want to ride. I have a Harley front brake disk, what do I care about originality? So the next question is 34mm or 36mm? I am thinking 36.

For me, it's dual aluminum AMAL Premier carbs, or the cNw 34mm Mikuni kit. Please don't try to hobble together a Mikuni kit - get one already figured out from someone how knows what they are doing! Don't wait if you want his set - he is almost out of the current batch.

marshg246 · Oct 23, 2023

Big_Jim59 said:
I was sitting at the table with my wife and I said "if I pull em off one more time I think they are staying off." I want to ride. I have a Harley front brake disk, what do I care about originality? So the next question is 34mm or 36mm? I am thinking 36.

BTW, a 2023 Triumph Modern Classic costs less than a sorted 50-year-old Norton. It's push a button and ride - if it's only riding you care about.

concours · Oct 23, 2023

B+Bogus said:
If you can get to a high pressure airline, that generally works for me.
In the past, with the carbs still on the bike, I've just drained the carbs, removed the air screw and applied the airline into the screw hole with good results.

Others have mentioned investing in a new set of Amal Premiers, and I wouldn't argue against them.

Not to detract B+, but we've been tortured by ethanol laced fuel in the US for a long time.
The small passage blockages USUALLY are CORROSION from the ethanol. Solvent and air blow USUALLY do not clear the corrosion. Makes a person kind of pine for the old days of "varnish" & "gum".

B+Bogus · Oct 23, 2023

concours said:
Not to detract B+, but we've been tortured by ethanol laced fuel in the US for a long time.
The small passage blockages USUALLY are CORROSION from the ethanol. Solvent and air blow USUALLY do not clear the corrosion. Makes a person kind of pine for the old days of "varnish" & "gum".

No different in the UK, sad to say. Even the previously ethanol free 'super-unleaded' now has 5% ethanol.
Sorry if my experience doesn't concur with yours.

Richard Tool · Oct 23, 2023

This single Mikuni vs twin Amal carbs will go on ad infinitum..
Use the carbs the motor was originally equipped with instead of dabbling with yet another alteration.
So for my two cents just buy new Premiers . You probably won’t find a better deal than Greg Marsh if he has them .
When you get them go through them as it is not unheard off to find some swarf inside .
Chase through throttle and air slide cables to make certain They are operating freely.
When I rebuilt my 750 Combat I used Premiers and points ignition.
It starts , idles and runs beautifully. 3 k miles so far .

worntorn · Oct 23, 2023

Won't the new Premieres just work for awhile then plug up after sitting with the ethanol fuel ?
I'm just starting to deal with this now as we are down to a single source of ethanol free fuel.
Even that source is labelled as " May contain up to 10 percent Ethanol"
The buyer for the fuel company told me that the label change is due to law however she did not think their premium has ethanol in it as it does not show a percentage on the Bills of Lading.
All of their other grades do show an Ethanol percentage on the Bills of Lading.
After learning that I tested their Premium and it is Ethanol free, at the moment. That could change next week however, so I have to test every purchase or drain all fuel after every run.

The other option is to remove the ethanol from the fuel that contains it. I'm setting up to do that.
The other choice is no choice, put up with bikes that won't idle, fart and belch on acceleration and are difficult to start.

I recently read a report that detailed just how much the production of ethanol for motor vehicles has added to the global warming problem. Crazy that this is being done under the guise of protecting the environment!

Glen

Frustrated Beyond Measure

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