Frame modification to kick on side stand

danfr

danfr

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Has anyone had success modifying their Commando frame (other than the gusset to the crossover tube) to hold up to kick starting their bike on the side stand? I’m welding on an aftermarket kick stand and bracket commonly used on old Harley’s. I was considering cutting a pipe in half lengthwise that has a 1” I.D. and welding it on to thicken the frame tubing.

Cheers
Dan
 
You would need to stop the tube collapsing (caving in mid way up the tube)

This was a Mk3 < that was on BAT and iirc sold for around US$19000.
That lean is all the tube deforming. (I thought I had kept the picture showing the obvious to see but not mentioned in the description damage)

ss.jpg


I still cannot see how folk bend the frame or stand when the kick starter if on the righthand side of the bike unless they are doing it with one foot on the left peg (which would an odd way to start the bike)
 
There’s a lot of factors that could have caused it. Thin tubing, high compression, kicking while standing on the bike. Who knows. I’m surprised the side stand didn’t break before the tubing collapsed. Do you remember where it collapsed in? Was it just behind the side stand mount?
 
I found that past auction.
The auction included these two (now cropped) pictures but no written mention of the damage that I recall.


Frame modification to kick on side stand Frame modification to kick on side stand

bringatrailer.com

30-Years-Owned 1975 Norton Commando 850

Bid for the chance to own a 30-Years-Owned 1975 Norton Commando 850 at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #98,907.
bringatrailer.com bringatrailer.com
 
The stops on both the sidestand and the block welded to the frame wear, as they wear the sidestand moves forward and the bike leans over more. I rebuild the stops with weld with added metal and then test fit and file to get the side stand just going past the 90 degrees to the frame. You get the right lean angle and also if you accidentally ride off with the sidestand down it retracts when it touches the road before it has a chance to topple the bike over. At the same time you have to check the bush to shaft clearance as well as wear here adds to the lean.
 
I used a zzr1100 Kawasaki side stand and bracket on my commando
I welded the Kawasaki lug straight to frame nearer the clutch end
It's a lot easier to reach and very sturdy
I used to kick start the bike on the side stand before fitting an Alton with no issues
There's a photo of it on here somewhere
 
Time Warp said:
I found that past auction.
The auction included these two (now cropped) pictures but no written mention of the damage that I recall.


View attachment 112027 View attachment 112028

bringatrailer.com

30-Years-Owned 1975 Norton Commando 850

Bid for the chance to own a 30-Years-Owned 1975 Norton Commando 850 at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #98,907.
bringatrailer.com bringatrailer.com
Click to expand...
Thanks f
kommando said:
The stops on both the sidestand and the block welded to the frame wear, as they wear the sidestand moves forward and the bike leans over more. I rebuild the stops with weld with added metal and then test fit and file to get the side stand just going past the 90 degrees to the frame. You get the right lean angle and also if you accidentally ride off with the sidestand down it retracts when it touches the road before it has a chance to topple the bike over. At the same time you have to check the bush to shaft clearance as well as wear here adds to the lean.
Click to expand...
Good call. the forward stop on the lock stand bracket I’m installing is equally as far forward. I may drill in a new indent more perpendicular to the frame.

Kick stand link
 
danfr said:
Thanks f

Good call. the forward stop on the lock stand bracket I’m installing is equally as far forward. I may drill in a new indent more perpendicular to the frame.

Kick stand link
Click to expand...
You have to balance the need to get the bike over a slight angle and the need to sometimes park downhill on a slope, or like me decide you would rather have a more upright bike and know to always park pointing uphill or on the flat.
 
Last edited:
I have an early frame with the notoriously short side stand. Once the concentric holes in the arm and bracket had worn oblong from a million kicks, I just bent it back with a few hammer hits, then drilled the oblong pin holes back to round for slightly larger pin. I turned the new pin on the lathe and it seems back to normal again..... (slightly short, so I do the same dance Kommando does when I park it. I look at which way the parking area slopes and use the slope to my advantage)
 
Time Warp said:
I found that past auction.
The auction included these two (now cropped) pictures but no written mention of the damage that I recall.


View attachment 112027 View attachment 112028

bringatrailer.com

30-Years-Owned 1975 Norton Commando 850

Bid for the chance to own a 30-Years-Owned 1975 Norton Commando 850 at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #98,907.
bringatrailer.com bringatrailer.com
Click to expand...
Thanks for cropping and sharing.
o0norton0o said:
I have an early frame with the notoriously short side stand. Once the concentric holes in the arm and bracket had worn oblong from a million kicks, I just bent it back with a few hammer hits, then drilled the oblong pin holes back tround for slightly larger pin. I turned the new pin on the lathe and it seems back to normal again..... (slightly short, so I do the same dance Kommando does when I park it. I look at which way the parking area slopes and use the slope to my advantage)
Click to expand...
we’re you kicking on while the bike was on the side stand or was the west
o0norton0o said:
I have an early frame with the notoriously short side stand. Once the concentric holes in the arm and bracket had worn oblong from a million kicks, I just bent it back with a few hammer hits, then drilled the oblong pin holes back to round for slightly larger pin. I turned the new pin on the lathe and it seems back to normal again..... (slightly short, so I do the same dance Kommando does when I park it. I look at which way the parking area slopes and use the slope to my advantage)
Click to expand...
o0norton0o said:
I have an early frame with the notoriously short side stand. Once the concentric holes in the arm and bracket had worn oblong from a million kicks, I just bent it back with a few hammer hits, then drilled the oblong pin holes back to round for slightly larger pin. I turned the new pin on the lathe and it seems back to normal again..... (slightly short, so I do the same dance Kommando does when I park it. I look at which way the parking area slopes and use the slope to my advantage)
Click to expand...
Was your wear due to you kicking it while the bike was on the side stand or from simply parking the bike on the side stand?
 
Hopefully without falling down the rabbit hole of should you EVER kickstart your Commando on the sidestand.....
It is possible to do so without beating up the bike up too much.
First you need a bike that does not lean excessively when on the sidestand.
Then you lift most of the weight off the sidestand, but it is still touching the ground, acting mostly as a safety.
I usually apply the front brake, which keeps the bike from rocking (which loads up the stop, creating wear).
With the bike held correctly, the kicking action unloads most of the pressure on the sidestand.
Never had any excessive wear or bending.
This not my regular way of starting the bike. But when needed (a stall at a stop light, for example), it works fine.
Would I start my bike on the sidestand all the time? No.
 
Stephen Hill said:
Hopefully without falling down the rabbit hole of should you EVER kickstart your Commando on the sidestand.....
It is possible to do so without beating up the bike up too much.
First you need a bike that does not lean excessively when on the sidestand.
Then you lift most of the weight off the sidestand, but it is still touching the ground, acting mostly as a safety.
I usually apply the front brake, which keeps the bike from rocking (which loads up the stop, creating wear).
With the bike held correctly, the kicking action unloads most of the pressure on the sidestand.
Never had any excessive wear or bending.
This not my regular way of starting the bike. But when needed (a stall at a stop light, for example), it works fine.
Would I start my bike on the sidestand all the time? No.
Click to expand...
anything is possible with the right modifications and a little finesse when kick starting it :)

I’m shooting for a 14 degree lean angle on the kick stand and will relocate the forward indent closer to perpendicular to the frame. I’m think these along should mitigate and chance of frame deformation.
 
Starting on the sidestand causes issues, but starting with the sidestand down but not touching the ground is useful in stopping the bike falling away from you.
 
Let's not forget the reason the side stand pivot wears out on a commando is the shear length and weight of the stand
As pointed out by commoz sometime back
It's riding the bike that does it, the stand constantly being jolted up and down that wears the pivot out
Once he fitted a retaining clip to stop the stand from bouncing
It stopped the wear
 
danfr said:
Was your wear due to you kicking it while the bike was on the side stand or from simply parking the bike on the side stand?
Click to expand...

So,..... as a kid I didn't know shit about high performance, so I did all the stuff to make my commando a higher compression engine thinking it was going to be noticeably faster. I eliminated the base gasket, and shaved the head a few thousandths (forget how much) and I run the composite head gasket which is thinner. All this awesomeness did NOT make my bike some feared super norton, but it did make it an absolute bear to kick over. Thank god it does start pretty reliably.

Sorry I digress, I used to start it on the side stand for many years because I didn't know any better. I eventually replaced that side stand and lug because it got very sloppy. Then I started balancing the bike and kicking it while balancing on the wheels. That is not easy with a higher compression engine, so I started kicking it on the side stand again and after a few years the side stand gradually got sloppy again and I was sliding some debris under it when I parked the bike on the side stand so it would stand at a reasonable angle.

I think if all you do is park the bike on the side stand, it should last at least 20 years. Kicking the bike on the sidestand is the eventual side stand killer
 
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I've never seen the lug move on a 71-74 Commando (I'm sure some have), but I've been involved with three MK3s that the lug bent upward by collapsing the frame tube. In each case the extended part that is welded to the crossmember broke loose and they appeared to only be tacked. I assumed it was from sitting on the bike on the side stand - in each case the owner said that they never kick started the bike. In one case, I changed the frame and in two, just had a new lug installed with weld to fill the depression in the frame tube and the lug well welded to the frame (the welder's recommendation). Had to provide the welder with a bare good frame for an example to put the new lug on at the right angle and they were bare frame rebuilds.
 
If you rotate the kick start lever back one or two splines on the kick start shaft (if possible, on a Commando), and always get the pistons just over TDC, the engine should be easier to kick over while standing over the bike and not putting pressure on a side stand that is down.

I'm short and have a higher than stock CR Norton 750 engine. I can't start the engine easily with the kick start lever remotely close to straight up. It puts me in a very awkward position, and I can't get a good kick on the lever. I don't start the engine with any weight on the side stand. In my case with a very aftermarket shorter side stand attached to a welded-on lug, it would be dangerous. Kind of hard to explain, but I'd end up bouncing the bike off the side stand due to suspension compression during the kick and end up laying on the ground with the bike on my right leg. Might make a funny YouTube video, but I don't want to find out.
 
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