Frame material for Nortons and Commandos

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ajess

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35 years ago a friend who made bicycles told me Norton used Reynolds 531 thin walled tubing for frames. Pretty cool I thought at the time.

Recently, an acquaintance told me that is incorrect and Norton only used the 531 tube on the Manx racers.

What's the real skinny? What were the last few years of Commando and MKIII frames made from. I've heard some frames even made in Italy and some frames made by Reynolds.

Inquiring minds want to know.

Thanks so much. I'm glad to have found you guys.

LA
 
Welcome to the forum, ajess,

ajess said:
Recently, an acquaintance told me that is incorrect and Norton only used the 531 tube on the Manx racers.
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Your acquaintance is right. Non-Manx Featherbed frames and Commando frames were made from a fairly ordinary grade of mild steel tubing with welded joints instead of the bronze welded joints on the 531 Manx Featherbeds.
Apparently some of the Italian Commando frames were made from a lower grade steel than was specified-according to master frame builder Ken Sprayson of Reynolds, and Reynolds got the job of correcting any faults found on the Italian frames-as well as building their own Commando frames.
 
L.A.B. said:
Apparently some of the Italian Commando frames were made from a lower grade steel than was specified-according to master frame builder Ken Sprayson of Reynolds, and Reynolds got the job of correcting any faults found on the Italian frames-as well as building their own Commando frames.
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How can one identify such an Italian Commando frame made from a lower grade steel?? It is said these Italian frames had different size tubing (25mm and 60mm backbone instead of imperial tube size 1" and 2 1/4" backbone) but has anybody actually observed this difference?
 
nortonspeed said:
L.A.B. said:
Apparently some of the Italian Commando frames were made from a lower grade steel than was specified-according to master frame builder Ken Sprayson of Reynolds, and Reynolds got the job of correcting any faults found on the Italian frames-as well as building their own Commando frames.
Click to expand...

How can one identify such an Italian Commando frame?? It is said these Italian frames had different size tubing (25mm and 60mm backbone instead of imperial tube size 1" and 2 1/4" backbone) but has anybody actually observed this difference?
Click to expand...

Ask all those folks what had to shim their DT Headsteady. :mrgreen:
 
nortonspeed said:
How can one identify such an Italian Commando frame?? It is said these Italian frames had different size tubing (25mm and 60mm backbone instead of imperial tube size 1" and 2 1/4" backbone) but has anybody actually observed this difference?
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Yes, it has been discussed here several times, as some members have found their frames are made with metric tubing (60mm dia. main tube instead of 2-1/4" etc.).

The story goes that the Italian frames were supposed have had frame numbers beginning with "F1", so it would be logical to assume that any F1- frame would be made from metric tubing, however in good old Norton fashion, this does not always appear to be the case.
 
Frames with tubes to metric dimensions certainly exist. I would say that it is highly unlikely (but perhaps not completely impossible) that English factories could have used metric tubing as early as the mid 1970s so the finger certainly points in the direction of Italy.
 
ludwig said:
79x100 said:
...English factories could have used metric tubing ..
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They would burn the factory first , before using anything metric !
( 79x100 : just back from a great meeting in Waregem, had a long chat with your brother in law , wished you where there ..)
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...They weren' t too proud to use the deux chevaux oil filter ! :)

I probably should have been there today but the Commando is languishing and I've been a bit 16H focussed lately (The 16H has repaid me of course by breaking down three times last week :roll: ).
 
Diablouph said:
Where do you find the frame number? I have 00109 on my Head Tube.
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Curiously I found an 'R771' stamped on the left rear motor mount region. The 'Z' plate covers it. It corresponds with the build date (July 1971). I assume the 'R' is for Reynolds. I'll post a pic when I get back from vacation.
 
Hey now you got me curious?
Next time I have the Z plate removed for whatever reason I'l have to take a looksy.
Mine should have anR672.
Very cool 8)
LAB your a wealth of knowledge.
We should start a game show Stump the LAB :mrgreen:
Marshal
 
MarshalNorton said:
Hey now you got me curious?
Next time I have the Z plate removed for whatever reason I'l have to take a looksy.
Click to expand...

I wonder if Reynolds did this to all of their frames or just the early ones. Here's my July 1971 frame:

Frame material for Nortons and Commandos
 
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